Mustang crashes into crowd at Reno

[Njaco]

No, I understand that Eric and 'm sorry if my post seemed callous but it just irked me that some were missing the bigger 'picture' here.

BTW, you know how I doctor pics and I agree with your analysis - especially with the pixelation around the pic. Somethin I just can't remove sometimes while doin those pics. And it is indicative of photoshop.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Damn this sucks. Saw this on the news here in Germany. My condolences to those effected.

Hey Joe, why did you not take part in it this year?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Hey Joe, why did you not take part in it this year?

I'll pm you or post in the Admin section

 

[Ratsel]

Not sure how relevant this is, but CNN had an Aviation expert on who insists that this was a high speed stall. Are there any indications of that from photos or limited video available? Could that cause an elevator to fail? Or trim tab to come off? Again, not sure how relevant, but when I fly my RC models, HS stalls can be pretty violent.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Not sure how relevant this is, but CNN had an Aviation expert on who insists that this was a high speed stall. Are there any indications of that from photos or limited video available? Could that cause an elevator to fail? Or trim tab to come off? Again, not sure how relevant, but when I fly my RC models, HS stalls can be pretty violent.

I doubt it. When the accident happened the aircraft just came out of pylon 7. At that point there is a straight away in front of the grandstand area and then another curve comes up. Unless he really loaded up the aircraft at pylon 7 I doubt this was the case. These guys fly this course several times prior to heat races and usually have a predetermined "line" they follow to get the fastest time out of their aircraft, and they rarely deviate from it. I don't know who this so-called "expert" is or what his background is, but I doubt he's ever been involved with the races. The media is probably better served to interview pilots who have flown at Stead (Reno) for a proper perspective.

 

[evangilder]

Probably one of the aviation "experts" that call a pitot tube a machine gun. I really have seen that happen.

 

[Ratsel]

Wow... guess they should get ex-military or alike for expert consoltation.

FLYBOYJ, thanks for the input.

 

[evangilder]

I think they try to rush a story out and a lot of "experts" come out of the woodwork. Unfortunately, they don't have time to vet these 'experts'. I agree with Joe, they should talk to people that have flown those pylons.

 

[wheelsup_cavu]

I read on another forum that there may be video from inside the cockpit ??
Tragedy at the Reno Air Races - SimHQ Forums
Definitely not a video I would want to watch but I hope if it does exist it helps them determine the cause of the accident.


Wheels

 

[N4521U]

Probably one of the aviation "experts" that call a pitot tube a machine gun. I really have seen that happen.

Here in Australia I saw one report he was doing "acrobatics". Duh

 

[eddie_brunette]

RIP, my condolences to all the family and friend involved.

 

[Lucky13]

.........speechless.........

 

[Gixxerman]

Ghastly accident, appalling for all affected involved.
Always a tragedy when this sort of thing happens.
My thoughts to those hurt and their families and the families of those killed.

 

[Mustang nut]

Tragic news condolences to all the bereaved.

 

[Thorlifter]

Joe, with an accident like this, is there a chance that they will learn the actual cause or will it all be "best guess"?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Joe, with an accident like this, is there a chance that they will learn the actual cause or will it all be "best guess"?

Oh I think they'll figure it out, especially now that they found the camera that is placed in the cockpit. From what I seen during my time at Reno I seen pilots use small cameras pointed at the windscreen so after each race they can determine how they ran their lines. I also seen a second camera pointed at the instrument panel. I don't know what was set up on this aircraft but if any data is able to be gathered. I'm sure the NTSB will find out the cause. For the most part, NTSB accident investigators are very good at their jobs.

 

[johnbr]

For those ho what to read a good story on the Ghost.There is one in the January 2011 of Aeroplanemonthly .This has not been a good year at air shows and the air races.Here it is on a good day it was one great looking plane.

 

[jimh]

This is an interesting read from the mindset of someone, not this person specifically, defending this case. Its just the perspective of an aviation attorney, but insightful. The Beasley Firm was founded and continues to be run by a warbird operator. Whatever happens, Reno as we knew it is forever over. Bottom line is 10 people lost thier lives and that should be foremost in our thoughts.

Airplane Crash Liability and the Reno National Championship Air Races

jim

 

[FLYBOYJ]

This is an interesting read from the mindset of someone, not this person specifically, defending this case. Its just the perspective of an aviation attorney, but insightful. The Beasley Firm was founded and continues to be run by a warbird operator. Whatever happens, Reno as we knew it is forever over. Bottom line is 10 people lost thier lives and that should be foremost in our thoughts.

Airplane Crash Liability and the Reno National Championship Air Races

jim

Great read Jim but a few comments...

This attorney quotes 43.13 but neglects to mention the fact that these aircraft carry no or provisional Type Certificates, therefore the owner operator must develop a maintenance program and present it to the FAA for approval. So where does the liability lie if the aircraft are maintained per their approved program and then something like this happens?

I'm a hopeless optimist. I believe RARA will get through this. Pylon 7 may be moved a bit but had this accident happened 10 seconds sooner or later this crash would have been front page news for 15 minutes and the races would have carried on.

 

[jimh]

Under the definition of an experimental aircraft, air racing is listed, 21.191. Deep down this was still a Mustang. The only real change of note was the elimination of the scoop for the boil off system. Structurally the Mustang is painfully simple and strong. Yes it had clipped wings and the elevators tips were shortened but its basically a wing, engine and tail mounted to 4 longerons. That said there is no reason to expect more than the program dictated by the North American manuals 25hr, 50hr, 100hr, which would comply with 21.193 of the maintenance requirements. Obviously the racing Mustangs are a special case, they are subjected to a much more rigorous maintenance schedule and are constantly being looked at and tweaked, but that is by the crew, not a scheduled program mandated by the FAA. They also have to pass a Tech inspection by the powers that be at Reno and demonstrate both pilot ability and airframe integrity.

The precedent here is the "Voodoo incident", the other known elevator trim tab departure which resulted in Bob Hannah blacking out after a 10g acceleration, fortunately he survived and the lesson learned. Should there have been an AD? probably...but how many Mustang owners go out and run up to and over 400mph? Original Mustang trim tabs were made of bakelite, I don't know what these guys are using and it was mentioned by a crew member on another board that the Ghost's left elevator trim tab was non functional and faired into the trailing edge. Several Rudder trim tabs have been lost over the years without dire consequences which lead a couple racers to eliminate it altogether. It will come out in the end, we just have to patiently wait.

I've been following Reno since I was a little kid...I'd hate to see it end...it will be along time before the dust settles. Aside from the souls we lost there are alot of scars, both physical and mental resulting from this accident.

jim