operation Market garden

[Kruska]

My point is that the original plan was made when the road to Arnhem was not occupied by the 9th and 10th SS Panzer divisions; and I do not disagree that the plan should have been altered or even cancelled in the face of the changing situation ... however, it does not remove the idea that the plan was imaginative and quite brilliant as the idea of surprise (striking in the least expected place) was used by every other nations capable of making mobile war.

You say: The idea was brilliant; the plan was brilliant (but you can't actually prove it) and badly executed.

I say: The Idea was brilliant (because the Germans never thought about this possibility), the plan was bad (since it was not changed according to the actual situation, it ignored vital information regarding the SS units since September (not one day before), it did not incorporate any thought in regards to counter measures by the Germans (simply underestimated and neglected) and the whole timeframe based on one road and good weather, and additionally it was badly executed.

So since we still can't agree, let's do it step by step with some humor okay?

From the initial XXX frontline to Arnheim is about 100km on road.

17th Sept. at 14.25pm the XXX started and two front driving tanks were eliminated by an 88, - Typhoon – bamm,bamm German resistance finished. At 7:30 pm xxx Major General A.H. Adair reached Valkenswaard in 14km distance (that is 3.5km/h) without any resistance.(What a planning) About the same time the Son bridge was blown up by the nasty Germans.(was this in the planning?) The XII Corps encountered resistance by a Kampfgruppe (minor detachment-maybe 1-2 battalion sized) and progressed slowly.
The 504 took Grave Bridge, 505 and 508 took Heumen Bridge, the other 2 Bridges were blown up by the nasty Germans (in the planning?).
Upon the airborne landing at around 2-3pm SS boy Bittrich suggested FM Model to blow up both Bridges in Arnheim (Yes there is two), but Model refused (was this in the planning?).And don't worry not any German unit would have been cut off, they could have just moved 30-45 km east into Germany – line Venlo and Kleve. Frost reached the Bridge No.1 at around 9pm.(with rations for 48h) - what a plan -

18th September all allied flights grounded in Belgium (was this also planed?), and OMG was the only time that the LW had air superiority (300 aircrafts were placed under Models command). Beautiful weather lovely chance to bomb Arnheim Bridge if necessary).

XXX from Valkenswaard towards Eindhoven (what did they do the whole night?) Was it planned to do nothing? At 2:30pm stopped at Helmond by a Kampfgruppe (26km in 7 hours = 3.7km/h without resistance. The Best Bridge is blown up, again by those nasty Germans – no Bride left to cross (was this planned?). – The 101st controls Eindhoven and starts to set up a Bailey Bridge at around 2 pm, 3:45 two German Inf.Div and the 86th Corps reach the line Helmond/Weert – 18km East of Eindhoven.

19th September XXX has reached the area around Son at 10 am – 52 km in 42h = 1.2km/h incl. combat. (was that the plan?)The second British airdrop in Arnheim is not able to reach Frost. The 8th Corps can progress only very slowly.
Two inf Bat. and the 1st Polish can't reach their target, due to Luftwaffe flying 125 sorties (was this planed?) Hey the 208th Kampfbrigade from DENMARK has arrived at Arnheim
At the evening of 19th the 12th corps still had not broken through to Son.
20th September:allied reinforcements can't be flown in due to bad weather (was this planed?)
XXX corps dragging itself towards Nijmegen. At around 5pm the bad Germans wanted to blow up the Waal bridge (Nijemwegen bridge) **** didn't work, the fuse ****..ed up– was this planed? German reinforcements start to build up heavily. Hey only 3 days.

21st September: ah the weather is **** (was this planed?) no allied supplies and reinforcements. After 88 hours those lucky German bastards take Arnheim Bridge. (was this planed? and if what should happen?)And German troops cross the Bridge towards Nijmegen.

Best Part so far is that xxx corps, 8th and 12th Corps haven't met a single of those dreadful SS units and in 90 hours there spearheads had reached about 90 km, wow what a plan man 1km/h incredible brilliant, I just don't know what to say.

22nd September and 23rd the German goodies arrive 506th 45 Kingtigers and one company Jagtpanther. (I love this tank).
22nd September: Eisenhower holds a conference in Versailles and the "weakness" of the plan is unfolded.

24th xxx corps still hasn't arrived at Nijmegen ….. and so on and so on well 26th September OMG finish.

And you are trying to tell me this thing was a brilliant plan?

Regards
Kruska

 

[fly boy]

what i think they should have done is a pincer

 

[Njaco]

flyboy, I don't think that would have worked. Anyhow Eisenhower liked attacks across broad fronts most of the time.

 

[plan_D]

Yes, I am. And since it's not possible to prove a plan was or wasn't brilliant, is this worth my time? This opinion based discussion seems to have you all hot under the collar. And your childish approach is amusing for a nanosecond; then it becomes boring. Maybe I should be as patronising as you and say "you're better than that".

Let's take your 17th Sept. -

17th Sept. at 14.25pm the XXX started and two front driving tanks were eliminated by an 88, - Typhoon – bamm,bamm German resistance finished. At 7:30 pm xxx Major General A.H. Adair reached Valkenswaard in 14km distance (that is 3.5km/h) without any resistance.(What a planning)

This was not in the plan. The plan was for the XXX Corps to move at daybreak; however, XXX Corps awaited confirmation of the airborne landings before moving off. (Poor execution).

XXX Corps was also called to make night marches if held up; this they did not do.

"About the same time the Son bridge was blown up by the nasty Germans.(was this in the planning?) The XII Corps encountered resistance by a Kampfgruppe (minor detachment-maybe 1-2 battalion sized) and progressed slowly.
The 504 took Grave Bridge, 505 and 508 took Heumen Bridge, the other 2 Bridges were blown up by the nasty Germans (in the planning?)."

Delays were planned for, yes. However, the initial plan (that I stated should have been changed) did not account for the presence of any German armour. The fact that bridges were blown left, right, and centre did not hinder the progress of XXX Corps to a point of ultimate failure.

"18th September all allied flights grounded in Belgium (was this also planed?), and OMG was the only time that the LW had air superiority (300 aircrafts were placed under Models command). Beautiful weather lovely chance to bomb Arnheim Bridge if necessary)."

Of course, because weather is planned. The British Command decided to plan for themselves to have bad weather and the Germans to have great weather; they prayed to God for that. You seem to be forgetting that Belgium wasn't the only area to have airfields.

XXX from Valkenswaard towards Eindhoven (what did they do the whole night?) Was it planned to do nothing? At 2:30pm stopped at Helmond by a Kampfgruppe (26km in 7 hours = 3.7km/h without resistance. The Best Bridge is blown up, again by those nasty Germans – no Bride left to cross (was this planned?). – The 101st controls Eindhoven and starts to set up a Bailey Bridge at around 2 pm, 3:45 two German Inf.Div and the 86th Corps reach the line Helmond/Weert – 18km East of Eindhoven.

Again, it was planned for XXX Corps to make a night march in the event of delay. XXX Corps poorly executed the plan because they just didn't do it.

The rest of your post quickly becomes a childish rant and absolute BOLLOCKS. XXX Corps arrived infront of Nijmegen on the 19th September where they met 82nd Airborne in Grave, and advanced parties moved on to Nijmegen. And XXX Corps were rolling across the bridge on the 20th!

So the best bit is you're talking bollocks! My word. Get your facts straight...please.

 

[Kruska]

You are just about the right person to talk about getting the facts straight.

I can't get of the feeling that your knowledge in regards to OMG is based primarily on the movie A Bridge to Far.

Parts of the lead element of the XXX Corps, the Guards Armoured Division crossed Nijmegen Bridge on the 20th.of September – Not the XXX Corps. Pz.Brig.107 was still fighting with the main body of xxx corps on 22nd till 24th September south east of Nijmegen.
Kenneth Taylor's War Diary - 1 See page 8 crossed the Bridge on the 24th of September, 6th Battalion of Green Howards, of 69th Brigade – XXX Corps.

So if you want to discuss about this topic without just wasting time, sent to me the "Plan" for OMG and not some movie script and assumptions. Proof send me the "Plan".

Quote: Again, it was planned for XXX Corps to make a night march in the event of delay.
Who would ever plan a night march in a military operation plan for a Corps? You plan tactical objectives, advance timelines, unit deployments, etc. ….night march …. Ridiculous.

The Plan my friend required the XXX Corps to engage throughout the entire operation in order to ensure an ongoing drive towards Eindhoven to reach Nijmegen on day one – not day four, and as "PLANED" Arnhem in 2 days. (One day for Nijmegen, Two days for Arnhem - what a plan) And this Plan my friend was already thrown overboard on the first day and then replaced and constantly amended/improvised by daily and hourly decisions because the "2 day plan" proofed to be a "Plan of being impossible to achieve plan" in regards to terrain and actual opposition by the Wehrmacht, or in other words a damn ignorant plan.

And I am talking only about "Garden" the XXX Corps, Arnhem itself was doomed already before the 17th September because of ignored recon.

So send me proof for having planned a night march, proof to me that the plan included the objective of taking Nijmegen Bridge on the 20th of September including a night march, Bullocks yourself.

Regards
Kruska

 

[plan_D]

"Parts of the lead element of the XXX Corps, the Guards Armoured Division crossed Nijmegen Bridge on the 20th.of September – Not the XXX Corps."

"24th xxx corps still hasn't arrived at Nijmegen"

These two quotes are contradictory, and both from you. Advanced elements of the XXX Corps reached the 20th, I'm glad you realise this now, instead of lying about the times and dates.

"XXX Corps arrived infront of Nijmegen on the 19th September where they met 82nd Airborne in Grave, and advanced parties moved on to Nijmegen. And XXX Corps were rolling across the bridge on the 20th!"

If you note, I state that advanced parties moved to Nijmegen. The fact that elements of XXX Corps were crossing the bridge on the 20th means that XXX Corps was rolling across the bridge!

"See page 8 crossed the Bridge on the 24th of September, 6th Battalion of Green Howards, of 69th Brigade – XXX Corps."

Even this quote contradicts your bollocks statement about XXX Corps not being at Nijmegen on the 24th!

"The Plan my friend required the XXX Corps to engage throughout the entire operation in order to ensure an ongoing drive towards Eindhoven to reach Nijmegen on day one – not day four, and as "PLANED" Arnhem in 2 days. (One day for Nijmegen, Two days for Arnhem - what a plan) And this Plan my friend was already thrown overboard on the first day and then replaced and constantly amended/improvised by daily and hourly decisions because the "2 day plan" proofed to be a "Plan of being impossible to achieve plan" in regards to terrain and actual opposition by the Wehrmacht, or in other words a damn ignorant plan."

The XXX Corps were informed to constantly press forward; there probably isn't the actual wording "Night march on the night of 17th September" but I never said there was. The XXX Corps were ordered to continue pressing forward to Arnhem in two days, as you've pointed out, which meant to press through day and night. Even though I might have failed to mention that h-hour for XXX Corps was not 1400; it was in the morning !

The original plan was amended during execution because of realisation that the increased Wehrmacht strength. Getting an armour Corps to Arnhem in two days was possible as the roads were supposed to be cleared by the airborne...as this hadn't happened, the plan had to be changed. Which is all the execution!

If you want a direct copy of the plan I'll just write to the MoD or go back time to Sept. '44 and ask Monty for a copy.

 

[starling]

gentlemen,do we have accurate o.o.b.of xxx corps.i know a few units,i hope,so help me out please.
a/guards armd div.
b/43rd wessex inf div.
c/50th inf div.
d/8th ind armd bde.
e/44th r.t.r. detached from 4th ind armd bde.
f/64th med regt r.a.xxx corps troops.
g/household cav regt.xxx corps troops.
any help would be gratefully accepted.yours,lee.

 

[Kruska]

"Parts of the lead element of the XXX Corps, the Guards Armoured Division crossed Nijmegen Bridge on the 20th.of September – Not the XXX Corps."

"24th xxx corps still hasn't arrived at Nijmegen"

My friend - This is your original statement:

The rest of your post quickly becomes a childish rant and absolute BOLLOCKS. XXX Corps arrived infront of Nijmegen on the 19th September where they met 82nd Airborne in Grave, and advanced parties moved on to Nijmegen. And XXX Corps were rolling across the bridge on the 20th!


You are not correct, even though I put this as a contra statement to the plan - meaning that the XXX Corps had neither reached nor crossed Nijmwegen Bridge as planed on the first day - 17th.

These two quotes are contradictory, and both from you. Advanced elements of the XXX Corps reached the 20th, I'm glad you realise this now, instead of lying about the times and dates.

there is no need for me to ly because you stated the plan was brilliant. and the plan included the XXX Corps to reach Nijmwegen on the 17th and not 20th with advance elements or on the 24 with most parts.

"XXX Corps arrived infront of Nijmegen on the 19th September where they met 82nd Airborne in Grave, and advanced parties moved on to Nijmegen. And XXX Corps were rolling across the bridge on the 20th!"

If you note, I state that advanced parties moved to Nijmegen. The fact that elements of XXX Corps were crossing the bridge on the 20th means that XXX Corps was rolling across the bridge!

No, you still don't get the meaning of historic movements or military reports and plans, because the main body of the XXX Corps was still fighting south east of Nijmwegen on the 24th. Just because Frost reached Arnheim Bridge at 21pm does not imply that the 1st Brigade - not to mention 1st Division- reached the bridge, it would indeed be a very wrong statement and in military views a irresponsible and totally wrong report.

"See page 8 crossed the Bridge on the 24th of September, 6th Battalion of Green Howards, of 69th Brigade – XXX Corps."

Even this quote contradicts your bollocks statement about XXX Corps not being at Nijmegen on the 24th!

Main body of the XXX Corps arrived at the Bridge in the afternoon of 24th since in the morning they were still engaged south east of Nijmwegen. Why don't you discard your movie knowledge, start to read some books on the topic, instead of blabering nonsense and then start to pick on details after you received knowledge from me, exeeding your OMG knowledge by far. Totally ignoring the fact that XXX Corps -not some advance parties- were supposed to reach Nijmwegen on the 17th instead of the 19th with some advance elements and crossing with advance elements on the 20th and the mainbody on the 24th-26th.

At least it documents what I know, besides your: lead elements crossing a bridge

"The Plan my friend required the XXX Corps to engage throughout the entire operation in order to ensure an ongoing drive towards Eindhoven to reach Nijmegen on day one – not day four, and as "PLANED" Arnhem in 2 days. (One day for Nijmegen, Two days for Arnhem - what a plan) And this Plan my friend was already thrown overboard on the first day and then replaced and constantly amended/improvised by daily and hourly decisions because the "2 day plan" proofed to be a "Plan of being impossible to achieve plan" in regards to terrain and actual opposition by the Wehrmacht, or in other words a damn ignorant plan."

The XXX Corps were informed to constantly press forward; there probably isn't the actual wording "Night march on the night of 17th September" but I never said there was. The XXX Corps were ordered to continue pressing forward to Arnhem in two days, as you've pointed out, which meant to press through day and night. Even though I might have failed to mention that h-hour for XXX Corps was not 1400; it was in the morning !

The original plan was amended during execution because of realisation that the increased Wehrmacht strength. Getting an armour Corps to Arnhem in two days was possible as the roads were supposed to be cleared by the airborne...as this hadn't happened, the plan had to be changed. Which is all the execution!

If you want a direct copy of the plan I'll just write to the MoD or go back time to Sept. '44 and ask Monty for a copy.

The plan is known already to anyone who read on this topic: One day for Nijmwegen and two days for Arnheim. Therfore it was for certainly not a brilliant plan but an ignorant plan or a stupid plan. Since you will never be able to admit this - despite all the facts that I have forwarded to you - Let us just forget about this.

I know what I am talking about, so are you, you just can't admit. So to end this topic let me forward:

Monty was brilliant, the whole British army and its equipment was brilliant, OMG was brilliant, actually anything to do with Britain is brilliant. Happy?

Regards
Kruska

 

[Kruska]

gentlemen,do we have accurate o.o.b.of xxx corps.i know a few units,i hope,so help me out please.
a/guards armd div.
b/43rd wessex inf div.
c/50th inf div.
d/8th ind armd bde.
e/44th r.t.r. detached from 4th ind armd bde.
f/64th med regt r.a.xxx corps troops.
g/household cav regt.xxx corps troops.
any help would be gratefully accepted.yours,lee.

If you do not have the books, check Operation Market Garden order of battle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is quite detailed, but not so informative on unit deployments per day and time during OMG.

Regards
Kruska

 

[starling]

thanks kruska,unfortunately i seen the wiki.but my own opinion is that monty did not know how many lifts would be required.gen.brererton did,and therefore should have rejected the brilliant plan.yours,starling.

 

[Kruska]

IMO, but off course it is easy to be smart after knowing all the facts 65 years later, OMG had a better chance if the US 101st airborne troops would have been deployed north of Nijmegen so as to support the British in Arnheim if necessary, and the US 82nd airborne south of Nijmegen as they actually did. Even Sosabowski's total force was far weaker than that of the 101st. So they should have deployed his force along the 82nd or (in the worst case sacrificed) at Eindhoven.

And just leave the south to the XXX corps, they would have taken the same 4-6 days but Arnhem Bridge and Nijmegen Bridge would have been secured or at least the entrapment of the British would not have taken place. Losses would have been higher but at least this plan could have succeeded in reflection to actual historic occurrences.

And it would have been indeed a brilliant plan.

The allies however could never plan in -the certainty- that the Germans would not just blow up these two vital key bridges, making OMG a failure just as it was in history.

When the Germans attacked Belgium and Holland they almost pinpoint dropped their Para's in far lesser numbers on the objectives and as such enabled them to secure vital operational positions, needed for the speedy advance on several roads by the Wehrmacht columns.

Regards
Kruska

 

[Marcel]

When the Germans attacked Belgium and Holland they almost pinpoint dropped their Para's in far lesser numbers on the objectives and as such enabled them to secure vital operational positions, needed for the speedy advance on several roads by the Wehrmacht columns.

Regards
Kruska

You know 22nd German paratroopers were utterly defeated near the Hague by recrutes and 2nd line troopers in 1940? They already showed that these kind of operations were dangerous and usually not as effective as expected, even against an inferior enemy.

 

[Kruska]

Hello Marcel,

Yes you are very correct; The German HQ attitude towards the paratroopers was somewhat of neglect towards losses. Actually all German Para operations where very costly, not to mention Crete, however they fulfilled all their operations in conjunction with support infantry or tanks.

Hitler and the Wehrmacht actually could never develop a positive and innovative attitude towards the tactical implementation for airborne assaults, unlike the British or US. As such they spend the rest of the war as infantry, constantly being decimated due to their role as infantry fire brigade without the necessary integration into an armored Wehrmacht division.

Besides Crete the German paratroopers were a very small unit and as such always used in small scale operations.

If Hitler had actually planed the conquest of England the chances of being recognized as a strategic and tactical component of the Wehrmacht rather than the Luftwaffe, things would have gone probably very different for this unit.

Regards
Kruska

 

[Soren]

The paratroopers dealt out more losses than they recieved though, even on crete which is often considered a slaughter of paratroopers.

 

[Kruska]

The paratroopers dealt out more losses than they recieved though, even on crete which is often considered a slaughter of paratroopers.

Overall, yes certainly correct.

Regards
Kruska

 

[Marcel]

The paratroopers dealt out more losses than they recieved though, even on crete which is often considered a slaughter of paratroopers.

You should read up on the assault on The Hague. It was an absolute failure and hampered the deployment of German paratroopers for a long time afterwards. The Germans should have been content with only an assault on the bridges near Dordrecht, which was very successful indeed. As it was now, the Germans sacrificed the whole 22nd, gaining nothing and suffering losses above 2000 casualties.

 

[Kruska]

Hello Marcel,

Sorry I am not so familiar with the issue regarding Den Haag. I am not aware of a 22nd Paratrooper unit and 2000 casualties in regards to a single para operation at Den Haag. Could you forward some details of this "occurrence" to me please.

What I do know is that most parts of the 3rd Battalion landed at Valkenburg – airfield. One company had parachuted and the other were landed. So we would be talking of about 500-600 men, who managed to hold out for 5 days until the capitulation of Holland and reinforcements came in. The 22nd could be the 22nd Luftlande Infantrie Division- (47th and 65th Airborne infantry brigades), which never airdropped but was an infantry formation with Luftlande designation and as such air transported/landed, throughout the entire Holland campaign together with the 7th Fliegerdivision (actually 1st Para Brigade). However the three Battalions planed for Valkenburg (Part of the Regiment 47) only managed to airdrop and land about 1 battallion due to fighting on the ground and congestion of the airfield.

Actually the German airborne drops over Holland caused such havoc amongst the Dutch military command that they were not able to concentrate their efforts on the regular Wehrmacht units and as such surrendered after 5 days.

Regards
Kruska

 

[Soren]

Very correct Kruska.

 

[Marcel]

Hello Marcel,

Sorry I am not so familiar with the issue regarding Den Haag. I am not aware of a 22nd Paratrooper unit and 2000 casualties in regards to a single para operation at Den Haag. Could you forward some details of this "occurrence" to me please.

What I do know is that most parts of the 3rd Battalion landed at Valkenburg – airfield. One company had parachuted and the other were landed. So we would be talking of about 500-600 men, who managed to hold out for 5 days until the capitulation of Holland and reinforcements came in. The 22nd could be the 22nd Luftlande Infantrie Division- (47th and 65th Airborne infantry brigades), which never airdropped but was an infantry formation with Luftlande designation and as such air transported/landed, throughout the entire Holland campaign together with the 7th Fliegerdivision (actually 1st Para Brigade). However the three Battalions planed for Valkenburg (Part of the Regiment 47) only managed to airdrop and land about 1 battallion due to fighting on the ground and congestion of the airfield.

I'm using a.o. "The war in may 1940" bij captain Brongers and "the Kingdom of the Netherland in Worldwar 2" bij dr. De Jong as sources. (titles are translated as they are in Dutch). Especially Brongers uses a lot of German references. They mention the 22nd Luftlande division landing on the airfields near the Hague, which indeed landed mostly with Ju52 on the airstrips. The airfield of Ypenburg for instance, was captured on may 10th by paratroopers and soldiers from the Ju52's. Ypenburg was recaptured mainly by recrutes of the 5th compagny of the 4th Depot batalion on 15.30h that day.

The airfield of Valkenburg was in fact recaptured by two batalions (III-4 RI) at 18.30h that day (may 10th), so they didn't last for 5 days. According to my sources, some 1500 German troops landed on Valkenburg. About 600 Germans fled to the village of Valkenburg were they were sealed off by the Dutch and left alone.

22nd lost 42 % of their officers and 28% of other personnel in those 4 days. 1600 POW were taken and shipped to the UK in time, so the whole operation was a costly one and a total failure.

Actually the German airborne drops over Holland caused such havoc amongst the Dutch military command that they were not able to concentrate their efforts on the regular Wehrmacht units and as such surrendered after 5 days.

For the 22nd this is totally incorrect as they were defeated on the first day, when the Germans didn't even reach the Grebbelinie, the main defence line of the Dutch. And as I showed, the Dutch mainly used recrutes from the Den Haag area to eliminate the thread and as such it wasn't the big burden on the whole military effort at the Grebbelinie.
You could say something for the 7th flieger division, as they captured and held Waalhaven and the Moerdijk bridges. They were quite effective.

I do think the plan using airborn troops to attack Vesting Holland was a big mistake, even though 7th Flieger division did do their job. The total operation cost the Germans 220 Ju52, a big part of their transport ability and a big part of their airborn troops, which are very expensive and difficult to create.
And still the Dutch were not defeated military on May 14th when they surrendered. The Waterlinie was not broken, not even attacked at the time. They surrendered because their air force was defeated and the Germans could bomb at will on Rotterdam, not challenged by any Dutch air defence. To eliminate further loss of lives they surrendered. In the end, the use of 7th and 22nd was not necessary at all..
You could say the Germans won because the Dutch were too greedy in the previous years to build up a modern army and a big airforce.

Very correct Kruska.

Nope, as I already mentioned above. As I said you should first read up on the subject.

 

[Kruska]

Hello Marcel,

Thanks for the info. As far as I know however only about 500-600 men landed at Valkenburg and they managed to stay and keep the airfield until the Dutch surrender, or retreated to the surrounding area in order to keep the Dutch occupied. As such the objective towards the airfield would have failed, however the Dutch also could not use it – and that was one of the objectives.
So far I only managed to track sentences in regards to the failed operation regarding the 22nd Luftlande Infantrie Division but I have not found anything solid so far on it.

Oberst R. Buhse.htm

This 1600 men POW issue I have only read on WIKI so far and I really doubt that very much.

In contra, I think it is proven that the German para landings contributed greatly to the distortion which speeded up Holland's surrender. Before the LW bombed Rotterdam, the Dutch and Germans were already negotiating the surrender and the timeline had been extended by the Germans, as such the Rotterdam incident happened – due to the fact that the LW did not recall the bombers being unaware about the capitulation of Rotterdam.

I will see, if I can find some more reliable info's/sources on this topic.

Regards
Kruska