P-38 Would Be Proud

[the lancaster kicks ass]

I've started a "bash the UK" thread

Gentlemen ther will be no UK bashing here, in particular no bashing of our great Queen, whom celebrates her 80th birthday (actual not official) this week, i trust you will all rise and sing along to the national anthem? (i know you diminions have different national anthems but you should all bid your Queen good health and success)

 

[cheddar cheese]

The only time I hated the Brits was last year during a certin sporting event that didn't quite go our way.. But I'm now over it and moved on in life, and looking forward to see them get their arses whipped later this year!!

It was a fluke Speaking of that I got the Wisden Cricketers Almanack 2006 today, hell yeah...

 

[lesofprimus]

The only "Queen" I have is the Froot Loop that works for me, and the only thing I'd wish for him is a bad case of genital herpes....

 

[Henk]

I will not bow my head for someone who has nothing to do with me. I will be honest, I like the UK more than other countries in the world. I will not name them.

I just think that the Queen can have the decency of saying sorry for the things they did during the Boer war, if they can say sorry to the black people in SA for the things they did then she can say sorry to the family's who lost wifes and children in camps just like those that the Nazis had. They were the ones to judge Germany for the consentration camps of WW2, but do they really have the right to do so?

Many more people died in the Nazi consentration camps, but have a look at the pictures of the woman and children in the UK consentration camps that were in the Boer war and you will be shocked.

My family lost people in those camps and lost their homes and farms due to the greed of Queen Victoria and the pure evil thoughts of Lord Kitchener that led to many Innocent liefs lost.

Henk

 

[Pisis]

History is full of sadness and paradoxes...

 

[Henk]

Yep.

Henk

 

[Nonskimmer]

Several thousand Canadian troops fought alongside the British in the second Boer War. My great grandfather was one of them. I have his bayonet. I think an uncle of mine has an old pith helmet.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

come on henk no country's record is clean, even South Africa will have military cover-ups where they've tried to hush down events they're not too proud of, and why should the Queen have to apologise? she's done nothing wrong she wasn't even in control then so why should she?

 

[Henk]

I understand what you are saying lanc, but why did she apologize to the things the UK forces did during the Boer war against the blacks? Then she can just as well do so to the family's of the Boer people who died.

Yes, no countries slate is clean, but not even in the Apartheid era were there so many people killed or went missing as in the consentration camps the UK made. I will try to get some pics of how it looked like in the camps and will post them if I get them and then you tell me if it is right. Now tell me why were there such a fuss made over the Nazi camps, but not about the UK consentration camps during the Boer war? If you look at how many Boer people died in those camps you would see it is quite a large part of the Boer nation of the time.

I think the family's should be given a apology or sum money just to show that the UK government does regret it.

Do you guys know why they made the consentration camps during the Boer war? They were build to bring the Boer army moral on its knees, because the UK army could not win the Boer army. Kill the woman and children and burn their farms and kill the animals, scorched Earth it was called. When other countries or people tried to help those in the camps they were quickly put on a boat back where they came from.

IN the food were glass, metal hooks and even poison. The woman and children did not eat it and thus died from hunger and illness. The woman and children lived in tents that the UK soldiers not even slept in.

This is tragic and should never bee done again, but I think that the UK escaped the responsibility for giving the family's who lost family members in the camps something and not just make as if it never happend.

What you are trying to say is that why should the UK apologize now, then why did the Germans had to do it for years after the war?

Henk

 

[Maestro]

We're not ruled by any queen, Maestro. Like I said, and you know this anyway, it's strictly for ceremonial purposes. Same goes for the Governor General and the Lieutenant Governors. Don't put too much belief in that "de facto head of state" crap you see on the government websites and stuff. The role of the GG is no more real than that of the queen. No, unfortunately though we just pay taxes to support a completely useless sponge (Canada's Governor General that is, not QEII). Also, whether you choose to call a leader a prime minister or a president makes no difference whatsoever. They perform the exact same function either way. That in and of itself doesn't tie us to Great Britain, it's merely a title. Lot's of non-Commonwealth countries have prime ministers these days.

Incidently, not all present-day Commonwealth countries call Elizabeth their queen. India, Pakistan, and South Africa would be prime examples.

Well, we are ruled by a Prime Minister. But legally, if ever something hapened to the gouvernment leaders (example : a bomb explode in the Parliment and kills 50% of the politicians), then the GG would take the power and rule the country until next elections.

And recently, when a member of the royal family died, the leader in the House of Commons did a speech begining with : "Us, minions of the Queen of England, declare..."

I also remember hearing the "God Save The Queen" being played right after the "O Canada"... It happened several times.

And why do we still call her "Queen of Canada" ?

For all those reasons, we have to choose : are we still a British colony or are we an independent country ? Why should we keep such symbols anyway ?

 

[Nonskimmer]

Well, we are ruled by a Prime Minister. But legally, if ever something hapened to the gouvernment leaders (example : a bomb explode in the Parliment and kills 50% of the politicians), then the GG would take the power and rule the country until next elections.

Either the deputy prime minister would assume leadership or at the worst, the GG would appoint a senior minister to lead until parliament could get it's shit together and an election could be called. That's the absolute extent of his/her power. That provision is only there for times of extreme emergency, and then only if the situation absolutely dictates it.The Governor General is a figurehead, nothing more.

But it does bother me that she's the ceremonial C in C of the Armed Forces. That blows, figurehead or not.
And the annual "Throne Speech" from the Governor General of Canada? Pfffff! Please! What nonsense.

I also remember hearing the "God Save The Queen" being played right after the "O Canada"... It happened several times.

I understand, and I sympathize to a large extent. I'm not really big on that either, to be honest. It still occurs sometimes though, usually dependent on the event and the crowd. A lot of old folks still like to hear it that way. They do it at the Royal Canadian Legion and several other veterans groups still do it too. They fought for king and country, so I have nothing against them for doing it.
Then there's always the Vice-Regal Salute to the Governor General. It's a combination of God Save the Queen and O Canada. Personally I think it sounds foolish, but that's just me.

You'd be surprised though at how many people in this country don't realize that O Canada has only officially been our national anthem since 1980. We'd sung it for a hundred years before that, but it wasn't actually made "official" until '80. Huh. Weird or what?

And why do we still call her "Queen of Canada" ?

Again, it's just a tradition that we cling to. We've been wholey and truly independent from Britain for many years, but as a people in general we still take a great deal of pride in our history. At least the "English" parts of the country do anyway.
Today, calling Elizabeth II our queen is merely a tradition. It means nothing at all in the practical sense. I'm actually not too bothered by it. I know it's completely meaningless aside from tradition.

For all those reasons, we have to choose : are we still a British colony or are we an independent country ? Why should we keep such symbols anyway ?

We're an independent country. We threw off the last real remaining vestiges of British influence in 1982, with the signing of the Constitution of Canada by the very same Queen Elizabeth II. The symbols of "Royal" this and that are, as I've said, merely a ceremonial link with our past. Aside from that, they mean absolutely nothing. Why do we cling to them? Just choice I guess. It'd be interesting to see the results of a nation wide referendum on the subject, like the one Australia had years ago. Ha! I think I can guess how Québec would vote.

 

[Maestro]

Well, knowing that the GG has a salary of $200,000 a year and that the LG has approximately the same salary and knowing that there is 10 Provinces within the Confederation...

200,000 X 10 = 2,000,000
2,000,000 + 200,000 = 2,200,000

We would save at least $2,200,000 by years. (And I'm not counting all the travels, parties/ceremonies and other things.)

Knowing that our National debt is approximately $626,217,000,000, it would take us approximately 284644 years to completly pay for it.

So yes, I think we would vote to kick the GG/GLs out.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Yes, no countries slate is clean, but not even in the Apartheid era were there so many people killed or went missing as in the consentration camps the UK made. I will try to get some pics of how it looked like in the camps and will post them if I get them and then you tell me if it is right. Now tell me why were there such a fuss made over the Nazi camps, but not about the UK consentration camps during the Boer war? If you look at how many Boer people died in those camps you would see it is quite a large part of the Boer nation of the time.

What you are trying to say is that why should the UK apologize now, then why did the Germans had to do it for years after the war?

let's get one thing straight, and i don't mean this dissrespectfully to the people involved, but i am not one of these people that make a huge fuss over the Nazi concentration camps, i don't believe the germans should still be apologising for it, because it's in the past, i agree it shouldn't happen, but i aint gonna join any protest about it, it was 60 years ago! what's more i don't make a fuss because i know about the record of the British in south africa, you're not teaching me anything new, so don't put me under the banner of one of these people that damands an apology from germany whilst overlooking our own record, because i'm not one of those people...........

I think the family's should be given a apology or sum money just to show that the UK government does regret it.

why? is it the same government that ordered it? no.........

will an apology change anything? no, no matter what country it's from or about what event.........

 

[Delusional]

An apology might change relations between the two nations, as far as the general public goes. But other than that, I agree with you, lanc.

 

[lesofprimus]

I dont see what the big deal is with making an apology..... Some dweeb writes a speech for the Prime Minister to read, 45 seconds or so, and its done... Big deal.....

Whats so painful about that???

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

even if we did apologise would it stop people hating usin south africa for what we did? course not, no one's going to say "oh, they killed a lot of our own people... but they've apologised so it's all alright", no, they're not, so what's the point?

 

[lesofprimus]

I think u may be surprised at how many people actually DO stop hating the UK, even if it is a 20 second blurb from the Queen....

Apologies go a long way in the theatre of forgiveness....

 

[Delusional]

I agree with Les. Maybe if the U.S. apologized a bit more for things that we have done, we wouldn't be quite so hated around the world. Of course, in order to apologize for something, you have to acknowledge fault, and the U.S. rarely does that, either.

 

[lesofprimus]

Thats true, especially with some pussy like Bush in office...

 

[Henk]

Lanc I totally agree with you that you do not support the guys who wants Germany to apologize todayand I understand everything you say mate, please I am not attacking you and I am glad to hear someone who knows something about the Anglo Boer war.

Like les said, an apology goes a long way, not from the Prime Minnester, but the Queen herself. You see Lanc it is just to show that what the government of the time did is not right and was not called for. We as South Africans do not hate the UK we just think it is not right of the Queen not to even say that it was wrong, that is allready enough.

She was here a few years ago and the people then asked her to just say that it was wrong, but she refused. I think that is not right of her.

Well lanc mate I do not hold anything against the British personally. You know Lanc today the wight guys here in SA are paying for something we did not even vote for or do and this cause hate between the wights and blacks here, why should I pay for it and not get work or any opportunity of going somewhere in this country. So you see if they just forgive after all of the apologies and things done after Apartheid why should we still pay. It is fucked up to hold it against someone or a country after they already said sorry, but if you do not say sorry I can understand it.

Henk