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I think a major problem for the RAF, the BPC and the US military along with every other military is that everyman and his dog, plus the dogs fleas had design concepts and "projects". Figuring out what was realistic and could actually work and be put into production by the people making the proposal must have been a nightmare. In 1940 many things were still being learned about high speed flight, airflow, resonance etc and also what was actually needed for a fighter.@Clean32 you said:
"posting the other trash artist concepts to finish the story of the previously posted artists trash concepts.
being that all these trash concepts were presented to the British air ministry."
Drgndog posted the P-509 conceptual drawing, which eventually became the NA-73X.
You posted the P-500 concept drawing, which was a proposal for a lightweight fighter concept powered by a Ranger engine with the hopes of selling it overseas. It was designated NA-53 and predated the BPC's request to NAA, therefore moot to this discussion.
Spitfire NACA 2213 root, NACA 2209.4 tip. For NA73X through P-51M NAA/NACA 45-100, for the XP-51F/G/J, P-51H and P-82 NACA 66-(1.8) 15.5Nice
if you dig really deep, the Naca coding of the P 51 wing came post wing development. as i understand it both the spitfire and P51 did not use Naca developed airfoils.
RAE/RAF had zero input to the development of the NAA/NACA 45-100 airfoil. No input regarding 'wrinkled skins' of P-40 wing. The Brits 'bought' NA-73 based on a.) their impressions of the high quality of the BT-9 and AT-6, b.) Commitment to adhere to the British Specification F.18/39 Operational Requirement O.R.73, and c.) because they were impressed enough with the Cooling system scheme of the P-509 to believe that it would actually work." wing thickness" yes it was a thick wing, had a lot to stuff in there, add to that the British air ministry's experiences with the P40 wing skins wrinkling in North africa, this information being passed on. so we could say the best thick wing around.
The first target for flight test for both range and endurance (slightly different locations on CD vs V plot), is where Induced Drag CDi = Parasite Drag Cdp. The best cruise range requires more power and speed than best endurance.economical, MPG. the spit Mk IX was slower in transport, but that was when the aerofoils lift equaled the weight with no angle of attack as at the same speed the P51 had a heap of angle of attack, thus drag. the P51 needed another 30-40 mph to eliminate the angle of attack but still had a thick wing to push though. P51D
?????? Mostly incoherent, but please elaborate>i didn't read back on what i wrote for the P51, and yes it didn't have a pich down as comparability formed at equal distance on both upper and lowered sides of the wing. every thing else is bang on.
The root chord was 16.5% at C/L, straight taper to 9%. The tip airfoil was different. No concave 'under the skin'. The 'strake or crank' was not 'quite swept back' although the D was more pronounced angle to accomodate new wheel well door. Coversely the P-51H was straight LE. The 'big advantage' was to locate the main gear forward of the front spar.BUT. the P51 had 3 profiles. Inner, mid section and tip. the tip had a bit more of a concave under skin to try and fix low speed handling, the inner section was quite sweeped back. the big advantages of this are not often talked about. i have read that this had a small part to play in the Valiants crescent wing design,
????? Essentially the same as D but shock wave becan slightly further aft of D wing section locationi have never found any information of transonic flight of the P51H or why this was illuminated in the H? although i would sagest its advantages were just not known at that time.
Hey partner, just a small piece of advice, here's who you're arguing with:Nice
if you dig really deep, the Naca coding of the P 51 wing came post wing development. as i understand it both the spitfire and P51 did not use Naca developed airfoils.
" wing thickness" yes it was a thick wing, had a lot to stuff in there, add to that the British air ministry's experiences with the P40 wing skins wrinkling in North africa, this information being passed on. so we could say the best thick wing around.
economical, MPG. the spit Mk IX was slower in transport, but that was when the aerofoils lift equaled the weight with no angle of attack as at the same speed the P51 had a heap of angle of attack, thus drag. the P51 needed another 30-40 mph to eliminate the angle of attack but still had a thick wing to push though. P51D
i didn't read back on what i wrote for the P51, and yes it didn't have a pich down as comparability formed at equal distance on both upper and lowered sides of the wing. every thing else is bang on.
BUT. the P51 had 3 profiles. Inner, mid section and tip. the tip had a bit more of a concave under skin to try and fix low speed handling, the inner section was quite sweeped back. the big advantages of this are not often talked about. i have read that this had a small part to play in the Valiants crescent wing design,
i have never found any information of transonic flight of the P51H or why this was illuminated in the H? although i would sagest its advantages were just not known at that time.
My information is both the Spitfire and Mustang used NACA airfoils, the Mustang's had more internal room.Nice
if you dig really deep, the Naca coding of the P 51 wing came post wing development. as i understand it both the spitfire and P51 did not use Naca developed airfoils. " wing thickness" yes it was a thick wing, had a lot to stuff in there,
26 October 1940, NA-73X first flightadd to that the British air ministry's experiences with the P40 wing skins wrinkling in North africa, this information being passed on. so we could say the best thick wing around.
The Spitfire VIII/IX had a fuel consumption of around 5.75 miles per imperial gallon at economic cruise, 170 to 200 mph, dropping to 4.85 mpg at 320 mph at 20,000 feet. What fuel consumption figures are being used for the P-51?economical, MPG. the spit Mk IX was slower in transport, but that was when the aerofoils lift equaled the weight with no angle of attack as at the same speed the P51 had a heap of angle of attack, thus drag. the P51 needed another 30-40 mph to eliminate the angle of attack but still had a thick wing to push though. P51D
Is that Imperial or US gallon? Your post reminded me of a anecdote from decades ago.The Spitfire VIII/IX had a fuel consumption of around 5.75 miles per imperial gallon at economic cruise, 170 to 200 mph, dropping to 4.85 mpg at 320 mph at 20,000 feet. What fuel consumption figures are being used for the P-51?
The P-36/Mohawks did have wing skin problems.So how and when did reports of Tomahawk wing skin problems make it back to North American in time to change wing thickness? Thicker wing skin?
African or European swallow?Is that Imperial or US gallon? *SNIP*
Aviation in Canada is a mess of different units. For example, fueling a jet in Canada involves the fuel being dispensed in Litres, but calculated onboard the aircraft in Pounds, while the aircrafts internal fuel capacity will be listed in US gallons.I believe it's the same for aircraft for that matter.
Ah yes, the Gimli Glider.Aviation in Canada is a mess of different units. For example, fueling a jet in Canada involves the fuel being dispensed in Litres, but calculated onboard the aircraft in Pounds, while the aircrafts internal fuel capacity will be listed in US gallons.
Every time?Don't forget, early 51s without ventral filet would lose the tail completely in a hard diving turn to the right.
True that dorsal fin improved flow over the empennage, but reverse rudder boost tab was installed to 'reduce' hard rudder input. Also true that left rudder input was required in a dive for yaw control as TAS exceeded ~400mph.Don't forget, early 51s without ventral filet would lose the tail completely in a hard diving turn to the right.