P-51D "Mustang" vs. Fw-190 "Dora" (1 Viewer)

American luck, or German engineering art?


  • Total voters
    94

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

I say generally it would be like this:

Low alt = Dora-9
Mid alt = Dora-9
High alt = Mustang

At low altitude you wouldn't want to meet the Dora-9 in the P-51, on top of the Dora-9's advantage in maneuverability and climb performance at this altitude it also has a good 15 -20 km/h advantage in speed over the P-51D.

The Mustang Mk.III would make things about even at SL and an advantage for the Dora at mid alt and an advantage for the Mustang at high alt - the Mustang would still have to deal with the superior agility and climb performance of the Dora-9 however.

The Germans themselves concluded the Dora-9 and Mustang to be very much alike in performance at the altitudes where most of the fighting took place. - You can read that in Dietmar's book. Willi Reschke alos notes in his book that the Dora-9 was causing trouble for the P-51's at higher altitudes.
 
well Willi thought the Dora in his Geschwader was doing it to it with the Mustang but the reverse was happening. II. gruppe pilots thought they had an advantage over the Mustang opponents, replacing thier A-9's which was a good idea but they did not have an advantage and the German losses reports for the JG 301 unit provide this......pretty stinking grim, where it excelled was against the Soviets and the Russians never had a chance in my opinion with the Dora 9, but that is not the question here..... ~

this sounds pretty lame from someone who had a relative serve in the unit but JG 301 tactics in 1945 were just plain stupid and awful never putting into practice what the A-9 and D-9 was suited for
 
The Dora-9 was an entirely different beast than the Anton, and the Mustang pilots certainly had their work cut out for them to shoot one down, which is probably what Willi is talking about - he had already seen what happened to Anton's that ventured up high. However the Dora-9's were grossly out-numbered, so nomatter the advantage it had in agility and performance over the Mustang cause in a 1 vs 8 fight it is never gonna end in your favor.
 
I do not agree entirely with your post, I feel the Dora 9 lacked in all departments, what the Luftwaffe needed was the replacement and that was the Ta 15H-1 or the Dora 13. well anyway I will wait for volume 1 of the Dora9 by EE. the Grünherz book produced some years ago covering the Dora fits my evaluation the RAF. RCAF shot up and spit out III./JG 54 and JG 26 on a continual basis and that was not being outnumbered

guess we are looking at two separate and equally needed topics.

1.) what could of been in action

2.) the technical aspects-what-if flown by test pilots before any combat ops and after war to get results such as graphs for comparative purposes
 
My references show FW190D9-take off power=1776HP, Vmax=426mph @ 21650 w/MW50, climb= 3300fpm, service ceiling=32810 ft, range(clean)=520 miles P51D-tke off power=1490 hp, most HP was 1720 hp @6200 ft w/low blower, Vmax=437mph@25000ft, climb=3475ft/m,range(clean)=950 mi, ceiling=41900 ft.
 
I will stick with my simple comments, as the Mustang was rated as very good at low altitude.

even

dora

'stang

I was reading the Mustang encounters ...about a guy out of ammo @SL , who had just killed a couple of 190's, getting chased all to hell by a 190..

shitting his pants, but living to tell about it..

back to the optimized for low altitude (F/G) or the high altitude 190.. the P51 with or without external racks etc..

heck even barametric pressure that day or fuel quality could make a difference... even down the the spark plugs used


without splitting hairs
 
For me it is only the Engine!

It is little bit difficult to translate "Volldruckhöhe"!

The Jumo 213 A Engine had no three-speed two-stage supercharger only a two-speed two-stage supercharger and so his best outputperformance was at 6000 meters! With GM1 the engine could perform till 8000 meters. So the D9 was no high altitude performer cause of it`s engine!

Only the 213 E has his best outputperformance at 9000 meters and could perform with GM1 till 12000 meters and was an high altitude engine.

At my knowledge no D9 has had a 213E engine and so this very good aircraft was outperformed at high altitude from Mustangs.
 
thanks for that


plus , I guess, I imagine you could move your ignition timing around from the cockpit..

dunno
 
actually the 213A in the Dora 9 is hitting 1776hp max and then with a push of 10 minutes of the MW 50 installed could reach 2240hp emergency, escape from hot rod P-51D's on your tail or vice versa as shown in several US pilot combat reports. January 20, 45 is a notable event which I will cover later. 325th fg boys came up and broke into 40-50 Fw 190A-8, 9's and Dora 9's which in turn left the bombers and went after the 325th fg.- JG 301
 
Yes Erich that's right,

but you can only use the MW 50 until the ("Volldruckhöhe") " best outputperformance (Jumo 213a until 6000 meters) then the engine losses horsepower because of the lack of oxygen! Then you must use GM1 because it put oxygen to the engine! Only an other supercharger with an other outputperformance can solve this problem!

The Jumo 213 E can use MW 50 until 9000 meters cause this is the ("Volldruckhöhe") best outputperformance of the three-speed two-stage supercharger. When the aircraft goes higher then 9000 meters it must use GM1 to hold the Performance (horsepower).
 
Don my issue is if the Dora does have the GM-1 installed as with MW 50 injection through the two speed supercharger will only lat so long before the pistons seize solid and the a/c drops out of the sky like a stone besides the cooling flaps will do what they are meant to do.

Ace Oskar Romm while in engagement with Soviet Il-2's at low alt. he and his wingman blew through the Soviet fighters so fast they did not even see nor knew what was happening, Oskar's cooling gills opened up and his oil and coolant temps near blown he banked away and he and his wingman easily out ran the Soviet escorts, flying towards German lines his engine finally shut down leaking lub oil
 
@ Erich

first, sorry for my bad english! I will try to explain my issue.

I know that the D-9 has Mw 50 and GM1. And i can absolutely imagine what you have written about Oskar Romm.

He was at low altitude (between 0-6000 meters) so he can use MW 50 because the engine was below it's ("Volldruckhöhe") best outputperformance. The MW 50 Water-Methanol injektion is nothing else than the injektion like the cars in the "fast and the furios". I hope (for my explaination)you know that film. You can only use the MW 50 till the ("Volldruckhöhe) best outputperformance. When you go higher than the best outputperformance (Jumo 213 A 6000 meters) the MW 50 can't help you because the engine lacks oxygen and losses massive horsepowers. So you can use GM1 to give the engine oxygen and it have full horsepowers until 8000 meters.

The ("Volldruckhöhe") best outputperformance only depends on the supercharger or turbolader!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back