Passenger jet shot down over Ukraine

[Glider]

I am willing to bet a fair amount that the voice recorder will never be handed over in one piece as that is likely to have some incriminating words on it.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They'd have to do a better job than at Srebrenica.

More seriously it is an appalling atrocity and now, inevitably, the victims are being used as pawns in an unpleasant political game. Whoever was responsible, be it the Russian backed factions and ultimately Putin or the Kiev government, the one thing you can be sure of is that nobody will be brought to book for this outrage.

I just feel desperately sorry for the victims and their loved ones.

Steve

Steve

That is another terrible aspect, that both sides Ukraine/Russia are allowing this to morally decay for their political gain.

I wanna spit...

 

[michaelmaltby]

alive .... all the way down ... horrible way to die

 

[Marcel]

Dutch citizens have send a petition to the government asking to send in the army to get the bodies back. Will probably not happen, but just to illustrate the feelings here in The Netherlands.
It is a national disaster and we don't have patience with anybody.

 

[Hiromachi]

Hiromachi, I think so (sorry if my opinion is not the same as yours): every country has the political organizations of the extreme right

Yes, indeed. America has a Tea Party, Poland has ONR, etc. I'm just pointing it since in this particular case Всеукраїнське об'єднання «Свобода» doesnt publicly reject the actions of Українська Повстанська Армія, and what is more in quite a few interviews they openly supported them. Denying Волинська різанина is a big step backwards in public relations.
Especially for Poles, Hungarians and Russians this is a delicate matter.

I see very few dreaming of that Poland, it is now only part of past.


Well yes, creating one front against Russia would be a good idea. But not only for Poland or Lithuania. There is also rest of EU which should stay in same line. And they one. What intersts has Spain there ? Or France ? Or even Germany.
Its just a politics. EU wants to make business with Russia since both sides need other. And of course Russia will use it to their advantage.

Anywya, I dont think discussing it will change alot. Politicians will use it in their own purpose and case in 2-3 weeks will not be a main topic anymore.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Here is a post of the shoot down that the Ukraine 'Separatists" weren't able to yank in time.. Several sources leaked from CIA state that a.) SA 11 launched from within the 'Separatist' MLR, b.) SIGINT conversation between Russian Colonel and Strelkov diuscussing the identity and possibility of 'grave mistake' minutes after the 777 crashed.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaQzMv89eeo

Looks to me like the first couple frames show right engine/nacelle falling while the 777 maintains level wings - but fire is spreading while pilot is still controlling in descent - then last segment near tree coverage seems to indicate wing fell off before the pilot could get it on the ground.

Putin can rant all he wants but his hand caught in the cookie jar removing all significant evidence plus major structure such as the right wing and engine (probably a couple of miles away from crash site). The EU won't escalate the sanctions and Obama doesn't have the stones to cut off US Financial markets from ALL Russian economic sectors.

That is not video of MH17. It was uploaded on the 6th of June...

I believe thats the AN-26 they shot down earlier.

 

[bobbysocks]

i wish reagan was alive and in the white house.....

 

[at6]

As much as I liked Reagan when it came to style, he lacked any real substance as a president. I doubt that he would do much more than sound presidential.

 

[marconi]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaQzMv89eeo

This is An-26(some say AN-30) allegedly shot down by the new 9К333 "Verba" over Slovyansk about a month ago.

 

[l'Omnivore Sobriquet]

Terrorists are the ones who pack tens of people into a government building, round it, purposely set it afire and machine gun all those who try to escape.
If the Maidan coup crew stopped heavy shelling their own people, on a daily basis, such horrible deeds as throwing a missile into a overflying civilian liner wouldn't happen.
I hope Putin retains his cool again.

Long live democracy.

 

[Hartmann52]

l'Omnivore Sobriquet, as I understand it, you approve of the action of the Russian government?

 

[at6]

Hartmann52, there might be a little misunderstanding the previous post. I find his statement confusing but do not get the feeling that he is approving Putin"s actions. Remember, in Russia, you can vote anyone as long as it is Putin or Medvedev depending on which one is running for president. Will anyone face consequences for the shoot down? Highly unlikely as the weenies continue a policy of appeasement.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hartmann52, I also understood l'Omnivore Sobriquet to be critical of the Russians...

 

[swampyankee]

As much as I liked Reagan when it came to style, he lacked any real substance as a president. I doubt that he would do much more than sound presidential.

What did he do about KAL007? A few condemnatory speeches, and pulled Aeroflot's landing permits for the US.

 

[GrauGeist]

In the case of downing a civilian aircraft, seriously, what can a President actually do?

Should he hop AF1 and go over personally beat someone's ass? Should he swarm that country's borders and leave the surface of the earth scorched? Maybe shoot down one of theirs as payback? Sounds nice but would be pretty much counter-productive.

There is a limit to what any Prime Minister, President or other head of state can actually do. Public comdemnation, sanctions, assisting the victims...these things can be done...expediting an inquiry, assisting in investigations with intel and/or manpower, these things they can do and will most likely produce faster and more positive results...

 

[Marcel]

Train is on it's way. Still takes way too long, but at last it seems that people get reasonable finally. Let them come home!
Also the "black boxes" have been handed over. Hope that some work can be done now.

 

[at6]

Train is on it's way. Still takes way too long, but at last it seems that people get reasonable finally. Let them come home!
Also the "black boxes" have been handed over. Hope that some work can be done now.

Finally. Hope they can recover the rest of the victims soon and hopefully the recorders haven't been tampered with although it is doubtful that anything useful can be learned from them.

 

[at6]

i wish reagan was alive and in the white house.....

Remember "Reaganomics"? The trickle down theory meant a torrent upward. The deregulation rush that lead to the meltdown under Bush due to corporate greed and the "American dream" becoming more like the "American nightmare". Every body's economy has suffered from so much misguided thinking. Regulations enacted during the terms of FDR were designed to prevent what we've been experiencing.

 

[GrauGeist]

Remember "Reaganomics"? The trickle down theory meant a torrent upward. The deregulation rush that lead to the meltdown under Bush due to corporate greed and the "American dream" becoming more like the "American nightmare". Every body's economy has suffered from so much misguided thinking. Regulations enacted during the terms of FDR were designed to prevent what we've been experiencing.

That's one spin of the big picture, and not a single bit of it belongs in this discussion.

So we had better stop the political bullsh!t right now, or else the mods will clamp down hard on this thread.

 

[Marcel]

That's one spin of the big picture, and not a single bit of it belongs in this discussion.

So we had better stop the political bullsh!t right now, or else the mods will clamp down hard on this thread.

Yes please.

Train left Donesk this morning for Charkov. From there they will be flown to here where forensic experts will do the identification.