Scoped K98k and Mosin Nagant at the range

[Soren]

Soren
I'm not very interested in sniping but IIRC ordinary British infantry battalion had 5 snipers and they were handy in patrol, recon etc duties and also effective against enemy snipers and "snipers" (in latter I mean ordinary enemy die-hards which ordinary soldiers easily called snipers). It sounds strange that 1½ German armies didn't have a single sniper, even more when one thinks how Germans air-transported 5 Pioneer battalions to Stalingrad from Germany or at least from other army groups.

I care even less on "Hr. Major König" and have not seen the film Enemy at the Gates or whatever.

Still, where were German snipers? After all Stalingrad was the main show in autumn 42.

Juha

There were sharpshooters outside the city (Stalingrad) Juha, and also outside around Leningrad (and actually in Leningrad as-well). I'll have to dig into my books to see all the places where the Scharfschützen were deployed.

 

[Soren]

I did and I modified a bit my post in relation with that, you are too fast to reply

Do you see that it's a Gew 98b then ?

 

[CharlesBronson]

It is, I get confused with the Kar 98B.

 

[Juha]

Hello
I noticed that I left out the NCO from British Sniper Section and to make it right in second try tried to dig out exact info on the section but could not find WWII org of the HQ Unit of British Inf. Battalion, the best I found was 1953 org, the the Sniper Section consisted 1+6.

Juha

 

[CharlesBronson]

This is a more proper scharfschutze emplacement and dress.

Interesting interview with the top guns of the german scharfschützen business.


Scharfschützen, snipers weapons and tactics. - WW2inColor Talk

 

[Soren]

It is, I get confused with the Kar 98B.

Well it's actually called both Karabiner 98b or Gewehr 98b, I believe the designation changed to Karabiner sometime in the late 20's or early 30's.

 

[Soren]

This is a more proper scharfschutze emplacement and dress.

Scharfschützen, snipers weapons and tactics. - WW2inColor Talk

Like I said Charles the clothing varied with the inviroment and circumstances under which the Scharfschützen had to operate. The guy in the picture seems to be wearing a raincoat. The picture is from the book "The K98k Rifle" which I have. Here is the same picture without that annoying label in the bottom:

And a picture of the books cover:

I have loads of pictures if anyone is interested.

 

[Matt308]

I loved the hour long Luftwaffe training film. Excellent. Only about halfway through though.

 

[CharlesBronson]

I loved the hour long Luftwaffe training film. Excellent. Only about halfway through though.

Hour and a half actually.

Like I said Charles the clothing varied with the inviroment and circumstances under which the Scharfschützen had to operate. The guy in the picture seems to be wearing a raincoat

Yes, but note also the added cammo in the trench in the manner of bushes

I have loads of pictures if anyone is interested.

of course we are interested man, bring it on. 8)

 

[Matt308]

Hour and a half actually.

I have 1 hour 8 min 21 sec. What am I missing CB?

 

[CharlesBronson]

Check youtube I think this video there is longer.

 

[Matt308]

Oh okay.

 

[Soren]

I linked it a long time ago in a thread specifically about it:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ww2-general/unseen-weapon-8477.html

 

[Soren]

Some more pictures:

 

[CharlesBronson]

Neat pictures, if you can post jpegs, my computer get stuck a little with this bitmaps.

 

[Soren]

K98k at 900 yards:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8B4Me5HXNo

 

[drgondog]

760 m/s is plenty fast Charles, and the effective range of the German round is a good deal longer than that of any Allied round (Watch tables below). The US marine sniper's std. sniping round is the 172gr M118 FMJ-BT (BC: .494) which has a MV of 730 m/s and is fired very accurately out to 900m. The 7.92mm 12.8 g sS projectile can be fired accurately at even longer ranges.

For excellent long range accuracy you need a heavy, stable and very low drag projectile (Streamlined), muzzle velocity is of less importance.

most projectiles incl. FMJ spitzers.

7.92mm 12.8 g (198 gr) sS Geschoss (FMJ-BT), BC = .584, MV = 760 m/s:
Max range

Ballistics / Trajectory

7.62mm 9.7 g (150 gr) M2 Ball (FMJ Spitzer), BC = .420, MV = 853 m/s:
Max range

Ballistics / Trajectory

Curious what this 7.92 mm bullet looked like.

The Barnes X 180 has BC of .382 and 200gr XFB has a BC of .426 and the 220gr XFB is .462 (about as good as a modern 7.92mm gets)

and the Nosler 200 gr is .429. The Hornady 220gr BC is .464 (the best BC of any 7.92mm I have found so far)

How does one get a BC of 25% greater than a 220 gr - with a 198gr bullet?

 

[Soren]

LoL, Barnes X is far from the best out there Bill! Even Sierra's Matchking bullet (HPBT) is much better than that! (BC = .520)

Try out Sellier Bellot's 196 gr FMJ-BT round, it has an average BC of .557, slightly less than that of the 198 gr sS projectile.

Here's what they look like (Note some are S.m.K.'s (AP), the two furthest to the right are sS):


And here are some lab test result with different brands:

How does one get a BC of 25% greater than a 220 gr - with a 198gr bullet?

Bill how can you even ask such a question ? The answer is: Form factor, form factor form factor! Weight is far from everything, the light 150 gr Spitzers introduced in 1904 easily outperformed the 220gr roundnosed bullets of earlier.

PS: This is an area where I am infact an expert.

 

[Soren]

This great shows many different bullet types on the market for the 8x57mm Mauser, including a few FMJ-BT ones. The s.S. projectile is the 2nd from the left:

 

[Soren]

Close up of normal 154gr SpitzGeschoss FMJ flat base and the 198gr Schweres Spitzgeschoss FMJ boat tailed: