razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Though manning up can also mean standing up, with your head above the parapet too, then again which side's been digging the most trenches.
Since this is an international forum,any concern about whats going on in the Ukraine?
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The US bankrolls NATO to protect itself, not to "stop this revisionist-USSR re-incarnation from spreading into western Europe's precious "Civilization".
Incidentally the US contributes about 20% to NATO's three main budget groups compared to Germany's 14% and the UK and France's 11%, so some might take exception to the idea that the US bankrolls NATO. Those four nations contribute about half the total budget. Canada contributes just under 6% to all three budget groups. Never let the facts get in the way of good old jingoism
Europe will not pay any price to rebuff the Russian Federation, why should it ? The Russians will have their way and we, like good little Princesses, will just have to suck it up.
Cheers
Steve
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mikewint
Captain
Grau, Well I can attest that after 5 years in Vietnam I can count on one hand the number of times I wore a non-sanitized uniform in combat. Tiger-stripes (US insisted on OD green BDUs and nothing in Vietnam is OD green) originally came from the mercs and we also wore the black "PJs" (though I looked silly as heck at 6'4"). If I use the other hand I can count the number of times I actually fought IN Vietnam. The US term is "plausable deniability"
marconi
Airman 1st Class
Thanks, GrauGeist.
Another question then. President Yanukovich fled Kiev on 21th. Manifestations in Sevastopol started on 26th and Crimean Parliament was ceased the next day.Helicopters and cargo planes were firs witnesed on 28th. Is it possible to plan and organize an operation like this so fast?
Another question then. President Yanukovich fled Kiev on 21th. Manifestations in Sevastopol started on 26th and Crimean Parliament was ceased the next day.Helicopters and cargo planes were firs witnesed on 28th. Is it possible to plan and organize an operation like this so fast?
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
i guess you could argue there has not been any "combat" ( at least not yet )....or did i miss something?
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
It's possible, but I would be surprised if it was done on the spur of the moment.
I hope our Ukrainian members and friends stay safe.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
".... Never let the facts get in the way of good old jingoism
Europe will not pay any price to rebuff the Russian Federation, why should it ? The Russians will have their way and we, like good little Princesses, will just have to suck it up. "
Little Princesses in your pink tutu's .... on your knees before Vlad. What a disgusting image you present, Stona, but no jingoism.
Europe will not pay any price to rebuff the Russian Federation, why should it ? The Russians will have their way and we, like good little Princesses, will just have to suck it up. "
Little Princesses in your pink tutu's .... on your knees before Vlad. What a disgusting image you present, Stona, but no jingoism.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
remember putin is trained in intelligence analysis as he was a high muckety muck in the former KGB. i think he knows exactly how much he can get away with and how far he can push. he may have to back off a little or all the way but he will still walk away in a better position or get what he wants....having achieved his goal.
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Easy on the member sniping, no need for us to dig trenches on site too...
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
From what I am seeing, this is not a spur-of-the-moment operation. It has the look and feel of a well planned operation. The groups of "pro-Russian" demonstrators that no one had seen before, the sudden appearance of Russian soldiers and ferries of Russian vehicles being landed along with all the other events.
Hopefully this situation will resolve itself quickly and with positive results and hopefully you and your family will be safe.
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razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
"Sounds like their running an old puppet master program..." to partial quote from Appleseed Deus Ex Machina..
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vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
I think the one thing that will happen is Europe will figure out an alternative source of energy.
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Squeeze Energy!? an idea from Tokyo Zombie, there's enough people in the EU to use hand span springs with built in dynamos to charge batteries and capaciters..
The EU states will act in their own national interests. If that means they have to suck up a de facto Russian occupation of certain parts of the Eastern Ukraine they will. This is realpolitik. The bald facts are that there is nothing the EU or the US can do about it.
So far the biggest 'sanction' suggested (not implemented because Berlin doesn't want it) is the suspension of the Russian Federation's G8 membership. The UK has decided only to send athletes and the associated team members to the Paralympics in Sochi. There will be no ministerial or other official visitors. I bet Putin can hardly believe his luck.
Just because you were unaware of how NATO is financed shouldn't be a reason to attempt a sarcastic tone. The image I present is pretty much what is going to happen.
Cheers
Steve
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"... Just because you were unaware of how NATO is financed ...."
Canada'a contribution to NATO is the same as Germany and Italy's as a % of GDP ... which is usually how military expenditures are determinned
Member states of NATO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"...The image I present is pretty much what is going to happen."
No one - least of all me - is disputing that image Stona, I just described how it appears ..... another worthless treaty (Budapest memorandum) ... not honored.
Canada'a contribution to NATO is the same as Germany and Italy's as a % of GDP ... which is usually how military expenditures are determinned
Member states of NATO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"...The image I present is pretty much what is going to happen."
No one - least of all me - is disputing that image Stona, I just described how it appears ..... another worthless treaty (Budapest memorandum) ... not honored.
michaelmaltby
Colonel
".....I think the one thing that will happen is Europe will figure out an alternative source of energy."
I'm waiting for the French to invent fusion with baited breath ....
All that solar and wind renewable has sure worked out for the EU, hasn't it.
Europe and the UK is sitting on plenty of tight oil and natural gas but they're too fracked up to harness it. The Ukraine has a lots of natural gas but seemingly lacks the initiative to invest in production.
I'm waiting for the French to invent fusion with baited breath ....
All that solar and wind renewable has sure worked out for the EU, hasn't it.
Europe and the UK is sitting on plenty of tight oil and natural gas but they're too fracked up to harness it. The Ukraine has a lots of natural gas but seemingly lacks the initiative to invest in production.
We are getting side tracked but my figures were for contributions to NATO's three principal budget groups (usually referred to as the 'civil budget', the 'military budget' and the 'NATO security investment programme')
Not all member states contribute the same relative to their GDPs, anymore than all member states spend the same percentage of GDP on their overall defence budgets.
Canada's GDP was about 1.82 trillion US dollars last years compared to 2.46 trillion for the UK. By another popular measure, per capita GDP, Canada's is in fact well ahead of the UK because there are a lot more British than their are Canadians.
There is an international board of auditors for NATO (IBAN) which is supposed to reassure member states that their contributions have been properly spent. The money is actually allocated by a series of boards and committees which is outside the scope of this thread and forum. It is a typically bureaucratically top heavy system.
Cheers
Steve
Not all member states contribute the same relative to their GDPs, anymore than all member states spend the same percentage of GDP on their overall defence budgets.
Canada's GDP was about 1.82 trillion US dollars last years compared to 2.46 trillion for the UK. By another popular measure, per capita GDP, Canada's is in fact well ahead of the UK because there are a lot more British than their are Canadians.
There is an international board of auditors for NATO (IBAN) which is supposed to reassure member states that their contributions have been properly spent. The money is actually allocated by a series of boards and committees which is outside the scope of this thread and forum. It is a typically bureaucratically top heavy system.
Cheers
Steve
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parsifal
Colonel
our national broadcaster should hang its head in embarrassment. it showed vision tonite of unarmed Ukr soldiers being menaced by armed russian sodliers at some base in crimea, then brazenly stated in the news narrative that Ukr soldiers fired on unarmed russian soldiers. It is so wrong, one has to wonder if it is some sort of deliberate misinformation.
i cannot believe it....
i cannot believe it....
marconi
Airman 1st Class
Putin and his minister of defense claim that armed people in Crimea are not Russian soldiers.
