Some Spits

Airframes · Jul 15, 2009

Here you go Steve, the classic Charles Brown photo of BL479, of 316 (Polish) Sqn., R.A.F. Some captions put the pic as late 1943 or early 1944, although I do remember seeing a note in a book on Charles Brown's work, where the date was given as February 1944.
I'm afraid I haven't found the other shots yet, apart from a B&W version of the same pic, but to be honest, there's not a lot to show - the aircraft appears to be pristine, almost factory fresh, all over!
Two things to note; the doped patch on the rear fuselage, and the sliding canopy frame. Although it's possible that the patch is a gas detector panel, I don't think it is. It looks more like a repair patch or similar, possibly fabric, doped-on as a temporary measure?
The frame of the sliding canopy appears to be a much lighter colour, possibly grey primer, and I think this might be a replacement canopy, with the later, bulged hood. Until I find the other pics, of the port side, I'm unable to confirm whether the Polish red white emblem was carried on the nose cowling panel, but I'm fairly sure it was.
It's always interested me that this kite has the later prop and 'pointed' spinner, but the early, externally armoured windscreen, and the smaller than 'regulation' code letters. When I eventually get around to building a Hasegawa 1/32nd scale Spit straight from the box, instead of converting to Mk1, MkIX and MkXIV, this is the one I'll be doing!

Angels one-five · Jul 17, 2009

Airframes said:
Here you go Steve, the classic Charles Brown photo of BL479, of 316 (Polish) Sqn., R.A.F. Some captions put the pic as late 1943 or early 1944, although I do remember seeing a note in a book on Charles Brown's work, where the date was given as February 1944.
I'm afraid I haven't found the other shots yet, apart from a B&W version of the same pic, but to be honest, there's not a lot to show - the aircraft appears to be pristine, almost factory fresh, all over!
Two things to note; the doped patch on the rear fuselage, and the sliding canopy frame. Although it's possible that the patch is a gas detector panel, I don't think it is. It looks more like a repair patch or similar, possibly fabric, doped-on as a temporary measure?
The frame of the sliding canopy appears to be a much lighter colour, possibly grey primer, and I think this might be a replacement canopy, with the later, bulged hood. Until I find the other pics, of the port side, I'm unable to confirm whether the Polish red white emblem was carried on the nose cowling panel, but I'm fairly sure it was.
It's always interested me that this kite has the later prop and 'pointed' spinner, but the early, externally armoured windscreen, and the smaller than 'regulation' code letters. When I eventually get around to building a Hasegawa 1/32nd scale Spit straight from the box, instead of converting to Mk1, MkIX and MkXIV, this is the one I'll be doing!

Cheers Terry that's great. She does look factory fresh. I've wondered about the doped patch - a number of Spits seem to carry a patch there (particularly warbirds still flying), but I can't find anything in my references to tell me why... I'll add a patch to my Vb based on this pic. Thanks again.

Steve

A4K · Jul 17, 2009

Angels one-five said:
I've wondered about the doped patch - a number of Spits seem to carry a patch there (particularly warbirds still flying), but I can't find anything in my references to tell me why...

Steve

In exactly the same place Steve? I would have thought it a repair as Terry said, but that would rule that out then...

The gas detector panel was the large yellow diamond type on Mk.I, II, V and IX Spits (as you probably well know already), placed on the port wing in full view of the pilot. This seems to have then disappeared altogether. I can't see any logic in placing it on the rear fueslage myself, only the wing man and ground crew would see it!

Evan

rochie · Jul 17, 2009

some nice spitfires, well done Steve

Tinplate58 · Jul 17, 2009

Terry Brown dated this photo Aug. 6 1943 when 316 would have been at Northolt as part of the Polish Wing; the squadron was converting back to Mk. Vbs from Mk. IXs (which they flew March 43-Sept. 43 ) .
The clean appearance is due to it's being waxed and polished as were others in the squadron; the small codes were typical of many Polish squadrons also on their later Mustangs.
The cleaning was to get a few more mph out of them at the low levels they were operating at especially as they were hardly a match for the FW190s though the clipped wings improved the rate of roll; BL479 had a Merlin 45 so presumably would be classed as an F.Vb rather than an LF.
This CBAF batch had the larger Rotol spinners but early windscreens.
Nick

Airframes · Jul 17, 2009

Thanks Nick, I hadn't connected the two - low level and polishing - although I knew about this in other squadrons.
I notice though, that the Squadron were at Acklington (Northumberland) from 22 Sep '43 to February '44, when they moved down to Woodvale (Lancashire) before going to Coltishall in April, when they converted to Mustang III's.
(Coincidentally, I have lived near both Woodvale and Acklington, although the latter is now a prison!) I'm wondering if the 'back grading' to MkV's was to release the MkIX's to southern- based squadrons, whilst 316 were 'resting' up north?

Wildcat · Jul 18, 2009

AFAIK that patch covers a flare chute. I first noticed these myself on a restored MKVc in Adelaide, note the small opening in the bottom left hand corner of the first pic. The second shot shows the parachute that the flare descended on. HTH.

Angels one-five · Jul 18, 2009

Wildcat said:
AFAIK that patch covers a flare chute. I first noticed these myself on a restored MKVc in Adelaide, note the small opening in the bottom left hand corner of the first pic. The second shot shows the parachute that the flare descended on. HTH.

That explains it then! I wonder why some aircraft have the doped patch but not others though?

Tinplate58 · Jul 18, 2009

Wildcat you are quite right, it's a small square panel just above the battery compartment; they often appear as a light patch probably a result of repainting. The yellow on SZ-X could be a primer.
This is a light-coloured (or replacement) panel on a Mk. IX from 208 Sqn.
Regards Nick

( IWM photo )

Airframes · Jul 18, 2009

Great stuff guys! I knew I'd seen something about it before somewhere, with the 'round' shape of the hole visble under the patch. This, as far as I remember, was the loading hatch for the flare tube, and I may be wrong, but the fitting might have depended on which factory produced the air frame, as the flares could also be loaded through the exit hatch in the underside of the fuselage which had a higed cover. I'll have to do some digging now, as I've never noticed this on any of the various Marks of Spit I've worked with!

Junkers88A1 · Jul 18, 2009

great work.

but you must be pretty fed up with spits by now.. hehe
whats next ?

antoni · Jul 19, 2009

Tinplate58 said:
Terry Brown dated this photo Aug. 6 1943 when 316 would have been at Northolt as part of the Polish Wing; the squadron was converting back to Mk. Vbs from Mk. IXs (which they flew March 43-Sept. 43 ) .
The clean appearance is due to it's being waxed and polished as were others in the squadron; the small codes were typical of many Polish squadrons also on their later Mustangs.
The cleaning was to get a few more mph out of them at the low levels they were operating at especially as they were hardly a match for the FW190s though the clipped wings improved the rate of roll; BL479 had a Merlin 45 so presumably would be classed as an F.Vb rather than an LF.
This CBAF batch had the larger Rotol spinners but early windscreens.
Nick

No they were not converting back to Mk Vbs at Northolt. There were four squadrons in the Polish Wing. Three at Northolt and one resting at a backwater. Speke was often used. Only the 'front line' squadrons at Northolt had the best aircraft, the resting squadron used aircraft that were second rate. At the end of the rest period the squadron returned to Northolt and the next squadron due a rest left. This usually only involved a movement of personnel. Each squadron left behind its aircraft for the other squadron to use. On 12th September 1943 316 Squadron left Northolt for Acklington They left behind their Spitfire Mk IXs at Northolt and received Mk Vb and VCs at Acklington. These Mk Vs were never anywhere near Northolt!

antoni · Jul 19, 2009

Airframes said:
Here you go Steve, the classic Charles Brown photo of BL479, of 316 (Polish) Sqn., R.A.F. Some captions put the pic as late 1943 or early 1944, although I do remember seeing a note in a book on Charles Brown's work, where the date was given as February 1944.
I'm afraid I haven't found the other shots yet, apart from a B&W version of the same pic, but to be honest, there's not a lot to show - the aircraft appears to be pristine, almost factory fresh, all over!
Two things to note; the doped patch on the rear fuselage, and the sliding canopy frame. Although it's possible that the patch is a gas detector panel, I don't think it is. It looks more like a repair patch or similar, possibly fabric, doped-on as a temporary measure?
The frame of the sliding canopy appears to be a much lighter colour, possibly grey primer, and I think this might be a replacement canopy, with the later, bulged hood. Until I find the other pics, of the port side, I'm unable to confirm whether the Polish red white emblem was carried on the nose cowling panel, but I'm fairly sure it was.
It's always interested me that this kite has the later prop and 'pointed' spinner, but the early, externally armoured windscreen, and the smaller than 'regulation' code letters. When I eventually get around to building a Hasegawa 1/32nd scale Spit straight from the box, instead of converting to Mk1, MkIX and MkXIV, this is the one I'll be doing!

When the photograph was taken, BL479 was not with 316 Squadron. 316 Squadron were equipped with Spitfire Mk IXs. The squadron's ORB ifrom that period is very well detailed recording all flights including non-operational ones. There is not a single entry for BL479. According to the Aircraft Movement Card BL479 was assigned to 308 Squadron.

The photograph was taken on 6th August 1943 by Charles Brown from Miles Master AZ380 piloted by F/O Stenton. At this time all Spitfires of the Wing HQ and Station HQ were also SZ coded. The pilot of BL479 was G/Cpt M.W.S.Robinson the station commander at Northolt. That explains its showroom finish and the lack of chessboards.

Airframes · Jul 19, 2009

Thanks very much Antoni, that has cleared up a lot of questions for me! I's always wondered why it carried the 316 codes, knowing that the Ssquadron had MkIX's at the time, apart from their 'rest' periods at Acklington and Woodvale, with the MkV's. Good stuff mate!