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evangilder
"Shooter"
RG_Lunatic said:
If the 80s is today, you are about 20 years behind. Attack wings carry different loads than air to air interceptors.
Footage of an aircraft launching from a deck does not prove your point. They could be doing training exercises or other missions completely. The phantom was a versatile airplane.
This is my last post on this. Take a look below, every single intercept photo has...Drop tanks.
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Anonymous
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I didn't say it was a "bad" interceptor, just that it lacked firepower found on the Phantom. Being restricted to use of IR guided missiles was also a significant comparative disadvantage.
We could continue this debate into relative quality of missiles, but I think if you check it out you will agree the Sidewinder was the better missile by the mid 60's, and the Sparrow certainly the better choice for bomber interception.
There were effective countermeasures to IR missiles in the mid-60's, so I don't know how you can consider two to be enough. The sidewinder, firestreak, and redtop were all known to chase flares, the sun, or sometimes even reflections off the ground.
By the 70's and 80's the Sidewinder was tremendously more advanced than the Firestreak. The 11 mile vs 7.5 mile max range and the 900m vs almost 3 km min range are huge advantages.
=S=
Lunatic
We could continue this debate into relative quality of missiles, but I think if you check it out you will agree the Sidewinder was the better missile by the mid 60's, and the Sparrow certainly the better choice for bomber interception.
There were effective countermeasures to IR missiles in the mid-60's, so I don't know how you can consider two to be enough. The sidewinder, firestreak, and redtop were all known to chase flares, the sun, or sometimes even reflections off the ground.
By the 70's and 80's the Sidewinder was tremendously more advanced than the Firestreak. The 11 mile vs 7.5 mile max range and the 900m vs almost 3 km min range are huge advantages.
=S=
Lunatic
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
If you have studdied the Sparrow you will know that it has always been a piece of crap missile. The best performance it ever gave was in the '91 Gulf War when it was responsible for the majority of air-to-air kills. It success rate, however, was only 30% or so.
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Anonymous
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Lightning Guy said:
71 Sparrows were fired in Desert Storm for 26 kills. In most cases, two or more missiles were fired against each target, with an interval between firing, so the 37% hit ratio is misleadingly low.
Against low flying fighters it is not the best missile, especially the earlier versions. Against high flying bombers, the orginal intended target, its a great missile and has been since the early 60's. I'll do some more research on this when I have more time.
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Lunatic
The Red Top was perfectly adequete for the job. This isn't a case of which carried the better missiles, it's the aircraft we're talking about. I already told you the Lighting was being tested with Sidewinders anyway. With a 68 lb warhead at 7 miles, going Mach 3 one missile would bring down a Bear.
The Firestreak was a poor missile by mid-60s but it entered service in 1958. At Mach 2, 50 lbs warhead with a range of 4 miles it was still adequete to bring down the slow Soviet bombers.
Yes, the Phantom could carry the bigger payload but the Lightning could reach the enemy first and deal with the threat quicker. The RAF had already ordered the AIM-9L in the 80s anyway, had the Lightning carried on service it probably would have been equipped with them but by 1988 the age-old Lightning was finally retired from service at the same time as the Phantoms.
The AIM-7 wasn't a short range air-to-air missile, it was a long range missile. Comparing that with the Red Top is stupid. The AIM-7 is in the same catergory as the BAe Sky Flash.
Brilliant pictures by the way, evan. Notice the one Phantom in the RAF shot, although I know it was probably another Phantom taking the shot the RAF NORMALLY only scrambled one plane for one Soviet bomber.
The Firestreak was a poor missile by mid-60s but it entered service in 1958. At Mach 2, 50 lbs warhead with a range of 4 miles it was still adequete to bring down the slow Soviet bombers.
Yes, the Phantom could carry the bigger payload but the Lightning could reach the enemy first and deal with the threat quicker. The RAF had already ordered the AIM-9L in the 80s anyway, had the Lightning carried on service it probably would have been equipped with them but by 1988 the age-old Lightning was finally retired from service at the same time as the Phantoms.
The AIM-7 wasn't a short range air-to-air missile, it was a long range missile. Comparing that with the Red Top is stupid. The AIM-7 is in the same catergory as the BAe Sky Flash.
Brilliant pictures by the way, evan. Notice the one Phantom in the RAF shot, although I know it was probably another Phantom taking the shot the RAF NORMALLY only scrambled one plane for one Soviet bomber.
RG_Lunatic said:
If it truely is such a good missle then why did they have to fire 2 or more missles at each target, that would actually confirm to me that its success rate was quite low.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
i know little about missiles but i do know the lightning was a better intorceptor than the phantom, and few would argue with me on that one.............
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
don't worry Plan_D, i'll think of something we can argue about soon..........
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
ok, which is the mother of all deserts?? it has to be sticky toffe pudding or apple pie................
Mamma home made fudge!
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
But which is the hottest????
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
The only reasonable success any of the Sparrow family have had is as a navy point defense system.
plan_D said:
Yes I know I was making a joke.
And as for Lightning guy on the sparrow. I believe the sparrow is a good missle system but I think there are missles that are just as good out there.
AIM-120A AMRAAM, AIM-54C Phoenix, Skyflash, Mica, AA-10C Alamo, AA-6A Acrid, AA-9 Amos, AA-12 Adder, and Aspide.
