Take no POW's (written orders)

[bf109 Emil]

During the Normandy invasion, this obscure order was found on Canadian personal...first i ever heard on any forces, beit Soviet, Japanese, German, British sending men into combat with these on their person...

Kurt Meyer reported what happened in the handling of the German prisoners of war by the Canadian troops:

"On the 7th of June I was given a notebook taken from the body of a dead Canadian captain. In addition to handwritten orders, the notes stated that 'no prisoners were to be taken'. Some Canadian prisoners were asked to verify these instructions...they confirmed orders that if prisoners impeded the advance, they were not to be taken"[13]

The Canadian company commander Major Jacques D. Dextraze said and to a certain extent confirmed the accusations by Meyer:

"We crossed the river - the bridge had been blown up...Eighty five prisoners we take. I select an officer, "take them back to the P.W. cage". He goes back, making them run, to the bridge that we had... These guys had been running for a couple of miles. They came to the bridge (bad cut) No no, you don't take the bridge, you swim. Now these guys fell...went into that water you know. Most of them drowned. Imagine having run you know, they had been fighting before, running you know for a couple of miles, and then the water you know. Now, they were picked up by the engineers rebuilding the bridge. I could have been accused of not having protected them. I'm responsible for these prisoners you see. I felt very bad when I saw them all piled up beside the bridge..."

 

[Glider]

I had heard that the orders were no prisioners for the first 24 hours if they compomised the advance but had never found anything to back it up,
If the order was given then it wasn't normally followed as there were plenty of prisioners taken.

 

[RabidAlien]

Agree with Glider. The order was verbally passed down, and for the most part, ignored. Most commanders knew that, if/when word got out that no prisoners were to be taken, then if/when their own men were captured their lives would be at stake. The Malmedy Massacre was the exception (on a large scale) rather than the rule, and I don't think anybody has ever figured out who actually gave that order, or if it was just a massively FUBAR misunderstanding. As for putting that order in writing, there are NO commanders stupid enough to do so. It violates every code of conduct/ethic that warfare possesses, and directly contravenes the Geneva Convention, which both sides of the European war tried to stick to (yes...you can point out instances where Allied and Axis forces both went beyond. Its war. Accidents happen, tempers run hot, but for the most part everybody stuck with the Convention). So, an order like that, no commanding officer would've been willing to put his name to that. Heck, Peiper himself, when he found out about Malmedy, was really pissed and ordered an investigation. Towards the end of the war, alot of Hitler's more insane orders were politely ignored.

 

[A4K]

There were a number of German soldiers involved in 'hit and run' missions against the Allies, dressed up as American soldiers and using captured Willys MB jeeps (with only German style headlamp cover-plates to distinguish from the original). I read that for these guys atleast, there were definitely 'no prisoners' - if they were apprehended, they were to be executed on the spot.

 

[Kruska]

There were a number of German soldiers involved in 'hit and run' missions against the Allies, dressed up as American soldiers and using captured Willys MB jeeps (with only German style headlamp cover-plates to distinguish from the original). I read that for these guys atleast, there were definitely 'no prisoners' - if they were apprehended, they were to be executed on the spot.

Which sadly "for the Germans" would be kind off legal since the Geneva Convention does not protect spy's in contra to POW's.

Regards
Kruska

 

[A4K]

Das ist wahr, Kruska, und nicht nur für den Deutschen, glaub' Ich...
Do you know which unit it was? I think they were Waffen SS, but I might be wrong.

 

[Kruska]

Das ist wahr, Kruska, und nicht nur für den Deutschen, glaub' Ich...
Do you know which unit it was? I think they were Waffen SS, but I might be wrong.

Nanu, man spricht Deutsch?

As far as I can recall it was German paratroopers and members of the SS - 1. SS-Panzerdivision Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler- Peiper was in LSSAH and it was mentioned that Peiper had the idea of using these "US" soldiers in order to divert allied traffic and take controll of a or two bridges.

Regards
Kruska

 

[A4K]

Danke Kruske! Das habe Ich nicht gewusst, nur dass es sich um 'SS soldaten' behandelt.
Mein Deutsch ist leider nicht so gut - früher könnte Ich viel besser sprechen, als Ich in wien gelebt habe (Schon 8 jahre vorher...).

Evan

 

[Kruska]

Danke Kruske! Das habe Ich nicht gewusst, nur dass es sich um 'SS soldaten' behandelt.
Mein Deutsch ist leider nicht so gut - früher könnte Ich viel besser sprechen, als Ich in wien gelebt habe (Schon 8 jahre vorher...).

Evan

Hallo Evan,

was macht denn ein KIWI in Wien?
Most likely I will try to visit your beautiful country end of 08 or beginning 09.

The A-4 Skyhawk- Great aircraft - sadly the US are not building these kind of a/c's any more.

Regards
Andy

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Mein Deutsch ist leider nicht so gut - früher könnte Ich viel besser sprechen, als Ich in wien gelebt habe (Schon 8 jahre vorher...).

Evan

Was ich bis jetzt gesehen habe, find ich nicht schlecht....

 

[A4K]

Danke Andy und Adler..! Aber wirklich, Ich habe schon viel vergessen... weisst ihr, wenn man es nicht ausübt...

Ich habe schon "ein bischen" gereist in meinem leben - in Neuseeland geboren worden, ausgewandelt aber zuerst nach Australien, dann Schweden, Schottland, Österreich, noch einmal Australien, und letzlich Ungarn, wo ich seit 6 jaehre gelebt habe.
Neuseeland ist ein sehr schönes land, du wirklich sollst es einmal besuchen wenn du kannst. Ich habe damals einfach 'genug' gehabt, und wollte etwas anders sehen... obwohl es waere schön die Gebirge und das Meer zu sehen manchmal...

(..Wirklich tolles flugzeug den Skyhawk, gell..?? )

 

[RabidAlien]

*scratches head*

 

[A4K]

Sorry mate, we'll keep it in English from here on

 

[ED932]

The only statements, but no official documentation, of a no prisoners stance was in the weeks immediately following Malmedy, but generally in the European theatre most combatants welcomed the opportunity to take prisoners. There were many instances where prisoners were disarmed and sent to the rear unacompanied so as to not slow an advance. Prisoners were expected to adhere to certain protocols, and in general they did. Of course there were exceptions especially depending on the circumstances of the surrender. However in the Pacific theatre, prisoners from either side were quite rare, in most cases it was a fight to the death. This was mainly due to the mentality of the Japanese soilder, who for various unfounded reasons, would rather have died than be captured. Only towards the end of the war was is more common to take Japanese prisoners.

 

[A4K]

Interesting, 'AJ-G'! Welcome to the forum, too! Evan

 

[ED932]

Thanks Evan, you picked George up pretty quick. I joined a few months back but my visits are too far and few. Cheers Ralph.

 

[Kruska]

Wow Evan,

that is not just trips that would be an Odyssey. So I hope you have settled down now . I have been to Budapest two times and it is a very beautiful and historic city, especially if one likes the Art deco style. But somehow I just can't get warm with the Hungarians – maybe met the wrong one's how about you?

Do you happen to be with the Diplomatic Corps? or just travelling to make a living if I may politely ask.

ED932 is correct, after I read his post I recalled that Canadian troops had this order about No POW's circling around for about 2 weeks.

BTW, I came across an article maybe 8 years or more ago stating that New-Zealand disbanded its Armed Forces due to the fact, that they weren't able to defend their country effectivly (size of the country and population at hand), is this true?

Also dann Evan, nicht zu viel Gulasch essen and you will love this site in case you wouldn't know it already: Skyhawk Association Home Page

Regards
Andy

 

[A4K]

Firstly Ralph, be good to see around more often, mate, especially if you're a Dambusters fan too!

And Andy, no, not part of the Diplomatic Corps,but would like to think I've promoted friendship between nationalities during my travels...
To be honest I was always a drifter, couldn't put down roots, not even in NZ. I seem to have settled here in Pécs, though, for the time being atleast, and have a wonderful fiancée too.
You're right about the Hungarians though, many have a very 'interesting' mentality (and they know it), but in saying that there are many good people too, of course, same as anywhere.


As for us disbanding our armed forces, I think that may have been relating to our selling off of defence bases and aircraft (in 2001 we scrapped the whole Strike Wing from the Airforce -including all our Aermaachi MB339s and Skyhawks - as it was too expensive to maintain, and no-one 's going to attack us anyway, apparently... )

The world is an interesting place...

Thanks, too, for that site info!

 

[Kruska]

Hello Evan,

Hmmmm….. beautiful country, lots of resources, plenty of living space and no air force to defend it …… so if I would be ….ah well right……. There is really no one around to take advantage of this… but wait are you sure you can trust the Australians

Viel Spass und Glueck mit Deiner Freundin, and see you around in the forum

Regards
Andy

 

[A4K]

Servus Andy!

Danke, and you're right about those Aussies, too..!

It seems NZ is really only going to be in trouble if someone gets VERY interested in Antarctica (I hear they have a great penguin collection down there )

..But what about yourself? Have you travelled much, or do you intend to? I've been to Deutschland 4 times, and really enjoyed it each time. You and Adler live in a great country!

Gleichweise, alles güte für dich auch, mein freund!

See ya round !
Evan