Couldn't have said it better, Parsifal.
Terrorist attack In New Zealand
- Thread starter parsifal
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MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
I have an extremely low tolerance for censorship but this is one topic where I would be quite happy to be a hypocrite if banning any reporting on the subject reduced how often it happened. Would it help? I believe yes, but I could be wrong.
fubar57
General
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
Ironically, until some fifty years ago, NZ had a very effective means of gun control, reputedly removed because it was too expensive to administer.
Until then a ballistic sample was taken of every gun registered and when a gun was used in a regular crime the police could identify the owner of the gun used. In those days it took days or weeks to compare ballistic samples but now it would take a computer minutes. Unfortunately that option is no longer viable given the number of unregistered guns.
As others have noted guns are not the only means of mass murder. Some of the worst cases in Aus are Whiskey Au Go Go fire - Wikipedia, Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel fire - Wikipedia, Quakers Hill, New South Wales - Wikipedia, and, on 5 January 1977, a former employee of the airline deliberately crashed a stolen Beechcraft Baron into the Connair headquarters at Alice Springs Airport, in a suicide attack. Fuel is a common murder weapon everywhere, 2009 Kuwait wedding fire - Wikipedia.
There were no knee jerk reactions to ban fuel or aircraft after those murders - or after one in the US in the 70s (from memory) when an ex-boyfriend wedged the doors at a wedding and set the building on fire killing hundreds.[/QUOTE]
I should put my hand up and say that I did specifically mention 'right wing' in my rant, but that is for a specific reason; this guy is a self declared white supremacist and again, as I mentioned, such things, although reviled here, just don't lead to this kind of thing happening often. 'Right wing' and 'left wing' just doesn't hold the same weight here because the indulgences of this kind of divisive politics are just not prevalent in our culture, so when someone claims that they are this or that, people will call it out.
Agree with everyone on the less division call; most certainly, but hatred of all kinds, especially of this awful kind must be stamped out, so yes, I will call out your Steve Bannons and Milo Yanni....whatevers for their ruinous attitudes, regardless of their political affiliations.
Ah, gun control, now that's a can of worms...
Agree with everyone on the less division call; most certainly, but hatred of all kinds, especially of this awful kind must be stamped out, so yes, I will call out your Steve Bannons and Milo Yanni....whatevers for their ruinous attitudes, regardless of their political affiliations.
Ah, gun control, now that's a can of worms...
Let's not allow this thread to turn into a gun debate politics discussion please.
Shortround6
Major General
From my perhaps naive point of view when the left and right get too extreme they curve back, form a circle and meet. The babble may be different but the message (hate people different than you) and the methods (kill unarmed people going about their daily lives) is the same so the practical difference is nil.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
From the TV news coverage here in Australia I can see why some people on far right of the crazy spectrum feel they way they do - carrying out a act like this gaurantees unlimited advertising for their cause and may gain them a few recruits to their particular form of barbarism.
When Australians were among the many killed in Paris the news coverage was three or four minutes tops on the story and the denouncements of the murderers from the Islamic community were either non existent or not reported. On this story every muslim cleric that speaks out gets full coverage.
Same when the truck murders took place in Europe and the London mass murders
Etc
Etc
After the Charley Hebdo murders the politicians here all publicly cried Je Suis Charley while passing laws outlawing the publication of any stories which might offend some group - even if that story is 100,000,000% fact. They jailed a reporter for a story that was fact because it offended the people who were the subject of that story.
With the Christchurch murders the tv channel I watched for news spent over twenty minutes on this EACH NIGHT since as the lead story AND then when they got to sport lead off with the sports communities reaction. Both nights that is when I switched off.
What really angered me most last night though was the call from some for this !@#$%^ to spend his time in an Australian jail because he might be at risk in a kiwi jail. This is a standard Australian reaction now to people who commit crimes overseas. They made what can only be called a national hero out of a drug smuggler, conned the Indonesians into letting her finish her time in an Australian jail and put on greater coverage for her transfer from Indonesia to Aus than even the coverage on Christchurch. For her they put on special live broadcasts that lasted hours and one channel paid a massive sum for her exclusive interviews.
Now this mongrel has promised he will plead not guilty and I bet some Aus news channel is already offered shitloads of cash for his exclusive story when they really should have a total news ban on the !@#%.
When Australians were among the many killed in Paris the news coverage was three or four minutes tops on the story and the denouncements of the murderers from the Islamic community were either non existent or not reported. On this story every muslim cleric that speaks out gets full coverage.
Same when the truck murders took place in Europe and the London mass murders
Etc
Etc
After the Charley Hebdo murders the politicians here all publicly cried Je Suis Charley while passing laws outlawing the publication of any stories which might offend some group - even if that story is 100,000,000% fact. They jailed a reporter for a story that was fact because it offended the people who were the subject of that story.
With the Christchurch murders the tv channel I watched for news spent over twenty minutes on this EACH NIGHT since as the lead story AND then when they got to sport lead off with the sports communities reaction. Both nights that is when I switched off.
What really angered me most last night though was the call from some for this !@#$%^ to spend his time in an Australian jail because he might be at risk in a kiwi jail. This is a standard Australian reaction now to people who commit crimes overseas. They made what can only be called a national hero out of a drug smuggler, conned the Indonesians into letting her finish her time in an Australian jail and put on greater coverage for her transfer from Indonesia to Aus than even the coverage on Christchurch. For her they put on special live broadcasts that lasted hours and one channel paid a massive sum for her exclusive interviews.
Now this mongrel has promised he will plead not guilty and I bet some Aus news channel is already offered shitloads of cash for his exclusive story when they really should have a total news ban on the !@#%.
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That is a reaction partly to the Australian policy of deporting kiwis who have lived in Aus for 21 of their 24 years, and have associations with criminals. If he ends up in a NZ prison, he's likely to end up a martyr, which is what he wants.
He's going to defend himself, likely to use the court as a platform. A law professor on the news tonight said that it is unlikely a judge will stand for that though.
- Thread starter
- #51
parsifal
Colonel
When I created this thread, the discussion that has developed is not quite what I had in mind. Kiwis are in shock and grief about lost innocence at the moment. At least that's the impression I tuned into
The message I wanted to bring to my new Zealand comrades was more like this
The message I wanted to bring to my new Zealand comrades was more like this
Threads have a way of doing that. I'm just glad the mods have left it to run when its got pretty close to political speak.
Your impressions are pretty much on the mark with how everyone is feeling down here, and this seems to have had reverberations all over the world. The P.M. said today in Parliament that she wasn't ever going to speak his name - she wants him to disappear into a non-entity. Most people share that feeling, I've not heard his name mentioned, except when the news covered his initial court appearance. Its certainly opened a few people's eyes.
- Thread starter
- #53
parsifal
Colonel
For me personally I am feeling more like this
Or, I might just be a huge fan of john Farnham
Or, I might just be a huge fan of john Farnham
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
I think that aproach might go along way to reducing these attacks. The incident itself of course needs to be reported but if the perpetrator and perhaps there motives as well were to become a non entities maybe there would be less of these attacks.
I think I have to take all this in perspective. I know nothing about NZ except it's a beautiful country, basically good people who get on with their lives. Their reaction would be totally different than mine here in the states. We are constantly bombarded by extreme right/left innuendo and stories,alot exaggerated, some not. My initial reaction would be to remove these parasites(terrorist). My question is how do you stop it? The extremeism is so immbedded that just discussion will not resolve the situation. Blocking all information helps to not advance a cause but the situation is still there. So many incidents have happened here that could of been prevented(police,FBI,etc knew about it or it slipped thru the cracks). Everyone is quick to blame everything but the criminal himself instead of trying to fix the issue that there's people out there who will do anything to push their agenda. Feel terrible for all the victims whether it's NZ,Nigeria,the States or Europe.
Seems like we had a terrorist attack again yesterday. 3 dead 
In UK it is reported as definitely not terrorism, absolutely not and could not be even considered terrorism. As soon as the perpetrator was reprted to be from Turkey the whole story was dropped like the hottest of hot potatoes.Seems like we had a terrorist attack again yesterday. 3 dead
Hmmm, here it is still open if this is terrorism. At the moment the opinion is leaning to yes.
1. The victims had no relation to the attacker
2. The guy's brother is a salafist, so he definitely is in touch with extremists.
3. He apparently left a note in his car that makes the police think he had terrorist motives.
The UK media lost interest when self loathing was no longer involved.
- Thread starter
- #60
parsifal
Colonel
Its being reported here as being a likely act of terrorism, but still uncertain
