The Ace of Aces

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by pampa14, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. pampa14

    pampa14 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2013
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    28
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Timppa

    Timppa Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Finland
    Thanks, some of the photos I have not seen before.

    It is surprising, that a good biography of Hartmann still not exists (Toliver/Constable book does not qualify as good, far from it, IMO)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. gjs238

    gjs238 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    From Wikipedia:

    When the decorated British test pilot Captain Eric Brown asked Hartmann how he had amassed 352 air victories, he revealed:
    Well you can't believe it, but the Sturmovik, which was their main ground-attack aircraft, flew like B-17s in formation and didn't attempt to make any evasive manoeuvres. And all they had was one peashooter in the back of each plane. Also, some of the pilots were women. Their peashooter was no threat unless they had a very lucky hit on you. I didn't open fire til the aircraft filled my whole windscreen. If I did this, I would get one every time.[34]
     
  4. drgondog

    drgondog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Executive, Consulting
    Location:
    Scurry, Texas
    Not everyone that Hartmann flew against was so accommodating.

    I agree with Timppa that Toliver's bio left much to be desired, ditto Fighter Aces of the Luftwaffe. Tolliver and Constable set a standard for others to improve on as sources became more widely published but in my opinion left many facts off the table simply because they didn't have the resources to challenge the narratives.
     
  5. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
    Funny things are
    Hartmann wasn't amongst the top LW Il-2 killers, IIRC he was 59th with his 15 or so Il-2 kills and 12.7mm Berezin wasn't a peashooter.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    15,185
    Likes Received:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Public Safety Automotive Technician
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Home Page:
    But it didn't have a good field of fire directly behind and below, which was the favored angle of attack.
     
  7. Juha

    Juha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,734
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helsinki
    Yes, but that was the problem of the position, not the gun which was roughly twice as effective as .5 M2. And Il-2s often, not always, flew very low to make attacks from below difficult.

    Juha
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. aurora-7
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    226
  2. Wildcat
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    4,218
  3. RATHED
    Replies:
    39
    Views:
    11,337
  4. Parmigiano
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    2,104
  5. GermansRGeniuses
    Replies:
    266
    Views:
    34,036

Share This Page