The Guns We Own

[bobbysocks]

Ronnie...do check the laws about recovered machineguns. I was a firearms dealer for 25+ years and had the tax stamp to sell fully automatic weapons. I never got into recovering them nor was it ever addressed at any seminar I went to. you need to see how the government agency that deals with firearms classifies these. they are cool but could be worth $10,000.00 in fines and 10 years in jail each! that is here in the US. I am going to say probably a class 2 manufacturer or someone like that will have to certify the weapons "unserviceable".

 

[javlin]

No new fire arms for me. Still love the Oskar Debertshauser 22 I was given for my 12th birthday. I still fire it every now and then even though it is from 1941 to 1945 as far as manufacture date.

Everytime I get close and the money almost there something comes up

 

[GrauGeist]

Has anyone seen these things?

 

[Ronnie Radke]

Thanks for the feedback regarding my post, I just wanted to get factual & share my observations, experience & positivity in relation to this.

Aviation archaeology & relic gun ownership can be a little controversial with those who have little experience, who've never taken part & have even less understanding, but working only on what small amount of knowledge they hold regarding this - commonly known as contempt before prior investigation & fanciful pre-judging an individual(s) who takes part in this fascinating & historically valuable past time. Sadly many have a distorted image of where we just show up on a corn field with a backhoe & go nuts tearing up the land like a bunch of crack smoking rabid racoons looking for treasure & filling up trucks with booty while salivating in some psychotic aroused state with total disregard for humanity.This couldn't be further from reality & this kind of self focussed small mindedness is not unique & it's a classic negative & destructive human condition that a psychology book can explain way better than me. It is what it is.

It is however fascinating to witness the change of attitude when we invite these characters to get involved & see the reality, many quickly became hooked & wrote magazine articles, books, blogs, brought in the media to herald the historically significant finds, some went further & got memorials built at the sites, restored original airbase buildings & used recovered parts to create 'living memorials' for the surviving families & a whole host of other projects which made certain the stories behind of each & every gallant airman lost in the fight for our freedom & liberty was not forever confined to historical anonymity, so ensuring that they perpetually lived on in the minds of future generations by using that 'bridge to the past' we call aviation archaeology.

Regretably every hobby shares the same problems as we experience, people want to come wreck hunting to 'own' something, they are not interested in the humanity or the historic importance of a site, for them owning some cool part like a prop blabe, control yoke, gun, personal effects - whatever will give them a higher social status among their peers. These types have somekind of personality defect, by wanting to obsessively collect prize parts, in their minds it elevates their importance, validates them as some kind of 'big wheel' & adds inches to their manhood. It's a big issue & has plauged many wreck hunting groups, this jealousy & rampaging self centered malignency has been the death of many well organized & motivated outfits who made some incredible contributions to aviation history.

Back to the guns - We have to consider the average heavy bomber had 12 x .50 cals & the P-51/47/38 having up to 8 it's not unusual to recover half of them from a wreck site, multiply that by the number of heavy bomber & fighter wrecks we have unearthed in a 30 year period will give some understanding that owning a few isn't a big deal. Museums have more than they want already found years back in the infancy of wreck hunting. It's good to have an open mind & stop to reflect, that not every airplane which went down had casualties - many crews hit the silk before the plane met the dirt.

Another consideration - Not all the guns we find have come from crashed airplanes - many have come from dumps that the airforce used to dispose with end of life/surplus stock once hostilities ended in the ETO, so again just because a relic firearm or other part is owned doesn't necessarily mean someone 'plundered' it from a 'war grave'. That said I have seen it happen & heard about it, its a practice I find abhorrent, laws are only observed by the law abiding & those who act out of law without good reason do nothing to promote all the good work we & all other wreck hunters worldwide have done in preserving this important era of our shared history.

Finally I also wanted to assure those reading this that all my guns are de-milled, legally owned & sourced for those who may express some alarm. The only way they will kill someone now is if I dropped them off a tall building & someone was stupid enough to want to catch it.

That's my story & I'm getting down off my tree stump before I get sunburn - peace out!

 

[Ronnie Radke]

Here's a .50 cal that was recovered from a WWII 8th Air Force dump - its a little corroded but a nice find all the same.

 

[bobbysocks]

yeah I have seen those slugs before. wicked huh? not sure if you could use them for hunting or if you would even want to. some states do not allow HP rifles to hunt deer. ohio is like that you have to use a shotgun....

 

[GrauGeist]

The Hexolit 32 is actually legal for hunting.

There's a variety of shotgun slugs available for hunting, the legality mostly revolving around lead content and/or rifled versus smoothbore.

 

[bobbysocks]

there are several sabot rounds and expanding slugs for hunting. shotgun hunting is big around here. that round above I am sure would bring down a deer...its the condition of the meat that is going to be a concern. the high expansion rate may do too much damage. if I was in bear country I sure would want one in the chamber....

 

[GrauGeist]

Yeah, I can see that round being far better for close-quarter home defense, but worthless for hunting.

It's sort of like using a small tree chipper and won't do the meat much good...

 

[mikewint]

These are copper. Expansion 2.5in

 

[Airframes]

Good post Ronnie, and good to see you and your colleagues are among the 'official' groups - I have come across some people who would fall into the groups you have mentioned, and have little or no time for them.
I spent fourteen years lecturing on small arms, and at least one lecture would have some 'Anorak' who was only interested in owning a particular weapon for just the reasons you have described !

 

[GrauGeist]

Here's a .50 cal that was recovered from a WWII 8th Air Force dump - its a little corroded but a nice find all the same.View attachment 345697

I'm sitting here looking at that M2 and it occurs to me that it would make a badass upright floor lamp!

Perhaps one of the heaviest floor lamps on record, but still badass

(Cleaned up, of course!)

 

[javlin]

Well I forced this to happen I saw as maybe a once in a lifetime event.The rifle should show up next week.From the auction.....

From the vault of renowned gunsmith & author, Jerry Kuhnhausen. Over 350 shop, factory customs & one-of-a-kinds firearms, to be sold with NO RESERVES OR MINIMUMS.


Excellent condition - rifle - 18" rnd, Underwood dated 8-43 barrel - New commercial figured and extra nice dark grain walnut M1 type stock & Walnut handguard; about 100%; Opening for sling threading in butt along with sling swivel; Fastened with M1 type steel butt plate - Parkerized, "as-new" Parkerized finish about 100% - Markings: Crisp Springfield Armory receiver markings - Sights: Front shielded blade; Type Il rear - "as-new", Springfield Armory Inc. commercial receiver with an "as-new" Underwood 8-43 marked G.I. barrel. M2 type bolt. M1 type operating slide. All components other than the Springfield receiver and stock are U.S.G.I. New, "as-new" and looks better than issue. Sling, oiler, and 15 shot Gl magazine included in Mossy Oak soft carry case. - Yr. Mfg.: 1960s+ - Est. 700 - 900 - SN: SC12917 - FFL - Jerry Kuhnhausen Collection - 9500

Serial Numbers

The forged steel receiver sold 1993-1997 has a 5 digit serial number starting at 10,000, all preceded by the letters SC. The lowest serial number observed to date is SC10045 which was purchased direct from Springfield Armory, Inc. in July 1997. The highest observed to date has been SC12971.

David Reese related the total quantity manufactured by Lewis Machine & Tool Co. for Springfield was 3000.

Springfield Armory

 

[javlin]

My New and I mean this fella was never fired and I am afraid to say that it shall remain"a safe Queen".I will post pics later in the sunshine got to keep it hidden from the wife now

 

[Wildcat]

Real nice Kev, I would love to own an M1.

 

[bobbysocks]

that is another gun I should have got cheap when I had the chance...congrats.

 

[javlin]

Some outdoor pics of the rifle

 

[javlin]

latest acquisition should be in the this week

(C) Venezuelan FN Mauser Model... Auctions Online | Proxibid

 

[javlin]

Thanks Chris you might be interested in this auction WWII WAFFEN SS 1943 PRIVATE EN... Auctions Online | Proxibid not exactly my gig but I am watching a WWII Army Corp uniform if I can get it cheap I will and send it to my son.My father was a radio operator with a training squadron 92BG in England and the B-17 is one of his favorites but my guess is the Falcon he works on now may be taking over

 

[javlin]

My New Venezuelan Mauser 7X57mm usually used by Police(carbine) appears barely fired have to really look for ring on bolt face!