The Guns We Own

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Regarding the cost of reloading:

It really depends on the kind of gun you are reloading for and how much labor you are willing to put into it. The more money you spend on equipment, the less labor you put in.

For loading handgun rounds (straight wall cases), a 3 die set with a carbide sizer will cost about $40 or $50 these days. A simple press like the "Lee Hand Press" may cost about $25 or $30. A press mounted priming tool may be about $15. A good scale will probably cost about $50 minimum. (I suggest buying a good electronic scale which will cost more.) A Lee "Perfect" powder measure is about $25 or so. That covers the basic equipment needed.

For rifles, it depends seriously on what kind of rifle you are reloading for. Some guns like the H&K G3 and the Tokarev SVT-40 are just not worth reloading for. Bolt action rifles are generally pretty easy. A simple neck sizing die will do for a while (I recommend the Lee Collet Die set). For a semi-auto, you will need a full length sizer and a RCBS Precision Mic headspace gauge. A lot of folks just use the full length sizer and create a headspace problem on a gun that is in spec. A case trimmer is also rather useful for a rifle. The Lee version is inexpensive but I prefer a bench mounted type. If you are trimming cases, you will also need a deburring tool. The Lee version is about $4. The RCBS version is about $10. I forget the brand of the version I use but it is about $20. Also useful is a primer pocket reamer to clean out residue and to uniform the depth. A carbide version (necessary because steel wears out quickly) cost me about $30. I forget what the flash hole uniformer cost me (probably about $15 or so).

These days, I use a Dillon 550B press (about $500) even when I am resizing rifle cases. I only need to handle each case once and the cases end up more precise (in my experience) than if I process them through a RCBS Rock Chucker press (about $100). I actually use TWO Dillon 550Bs because I got tired of changing back and forth from large to small primers.

As you can see, it all adds up quickly.
- Ivan.
 
Ivan, I enjoyed your post about handloading. Brings back old fond memories. One point about handloading. Often, one can work up loads that are more accurate in one's individual rifle than factory loads will be. There are a lot of premium factory loads around now when 40 or so years ago there were very few. I still believe that a well worked up handload often will surpass the accuracy of even premium factory loads and one will save money in the long run.
 

It would have been useful forty years ago. For my purposes the Mauser/FN or M70 or R/700 or M77 suit me a lot better for sporting uses. In retrospect the ones I had probably had those with a minimum of 20,000 rounds fire through them.
 

The Gun List, local papers, gun club bulletin boards are also good places to look for bargins from people selling their gear.

Last but not least - you MUST have a decent set of dial calipers to check case base diameter, case length and OAL of finished product
 
Hello Renrich, Drgondog:

Since you two are hand loaders also, you know that I barely touched on the subject.

Renrich,
The saving money part is a given if you shoot a lot. This is made up for by the extra time spent in experimentation. A friend of mine shoots a fairly hot .30 cal Magnum. I forget the exact caliber. I would not recommend that HE reload because he is basically a hunter and probably doesn't shoot 20 rounds ( More likely about 7 or 8 ) out of that gun in a year. I wouldn't even own that rifle because I would estimate barrel life to be about 500 rounds. With only a couple 3 round groups and a round or two fired at game each year, that rifle should outlast him.

There are factory loads out there that I find VERY hard to beat. Federal .308 Match is one. The advantage is that I can make up pretty much equivalent stuff for about half the cost.

There are also some cartridges for which the factory specs are just plain screwed up. Look at the .300 Win Mag. You really can't put a reasonable looking match bullet in that round without crimping on the ogive. I shoot a gun with a magazine length much longer than 3.34 inch needed for the .300 Win Mag. I seat the bullets out MUCH longer and get somewhere between 0.5 inch and 0.75 inch 5 shot groups. Factories can't do that because the SAAMI spec calls for 3.34 inch max OAL. Navy folks out in Indiana came up with the same idea probably long before I did.

Drgondog,
I don't disagree you can beat the prices, but with used equipment, I like to be able to examine before buying. You never know when you might end up with someone else's rejects or a tool that has been abused. Then again, if it is RCBS brand, they will stand behind the product.

No question a dial caliper is a useful tool. I don't believe it is essential, but very useful to have. I should have listed it anyway for safety reasons.

Regarding setting the dies for headspace, I believe the RCBS Precision Mic beats the heck out of just about any other method although if your bolt face is not square with the chamber, you may get wacky readings when reading headspace of spent cases. Also, if your gas gun begins primary extraction before the chamber pressure has dropped (not uncommon with M14 / M1A rifles), readings will be overly long. In the same gun, adjusting the dwell time by shortening the gas piston actually reduced the headspace of spent cases. I also collected spent brass from about 25 M14 types I encountered at the ranges. I don't think I found even one gun that had a square bolt face.

Instead of smoking a part to determine contact, I often use a dry erase marker. Works well and isn't as messy.

- Ivan.
 

I should have thought about it - I have been using a small kerosene lamp for inletting for so long I quit thinking.

Interesting tip about shortening the gas piston, although I true up bolt faces on all of my keepers. Like you I have also found that to be a first point of investigation when I bought a barrel for a new action and it didn't shoot to expectations,
 
1892 Winchester, .357 M
Ruger Vaquero (Old Model) .357 Magnum
.20 Gauge double barrel coach gun
M1858 Remington .44 Cal.
M1851 Colt Navy .
Blank firing M1911

Used to have:
1943 Dated M1 Garand
M1 Carbine

Sure do miss the Garand, ah what we'll do when we need the money!
 
you guys remember the thing about that we should have a war with one of the states i think we have enough people with guns to do so
 
Don't feel bad wclracer. Unless you had some pedigree on your Garand, chances are it was an arsenal rebuild and worth no more than any other Garand. While they are moving up in price, they are still relatively inexpensive for your typical Garand.
 
you guys remember the thing about that we should have a war with one of the states i think we have enough people with guns to do so

"You guys remember the thing about..."

The 'thing'. The 'thing'. Remember what now?

"...that we should have a war with one of the states..."

Any one in particular? I personally like Kalifornia. Let's war with that one. Oooo... maybe New York!

"... i think we have enough people with guns to do so."

Us forum doinks? Likely not.
 
Hey now...wait a minute!

Remember, we have the Governator as our chief...

We'll hold back until the bay area gets it, then the fight's on!!
And once its on, the honorable Governator will lead the troops in his Terminator outfit, complete with awesome guns and cybernetic parts.....
 
I actually bought an M1 garand in pretty good shape with a new barrel but it's chambered for a .308. I have a ton of .308 laying around and don't use that round here in Colorado so i figured what the hell, I got a classic plinker. I kick myself in the a** because I sold an IBM carbine(all matching numbers) an M1a from a Marine who was on there shooting team and had been worked over by their armorers with a scope because I had to pay for the divorce lawyer when I divorced my 1st wife. Dumb dumb dumb.........
 
Hello again Drgondog,

Be careful about concluding that a factory powder is a certain kind. There are LOTS of non-cannister grade powders that look an awful lot like cannister stuff. Also, the lot they used may have been a lot that was made as BLC2 but did not test properly. I found at least with my target guns that loading to velocity worked pretty well in .308. Another interesting thing was that M852 ammunition actually shot better than Federal Match, but the problem is that M852 is very hard to find.

I'll accept a rifle that can't shoot MOA. A lot of military guns won't.

For really high precision, I use a 1 inch micrometer that reads to 0.0001 inch. I also don't tend to load really hot loads. I pretty much settle for factory specs unless I am dealing with something like 8 mm Mauser where SAAMI specs are ridiculously low.

Actually I suspect we are very much in agreement. I am a tool junkie, so I tend to buy a lot of stuff that I probably won't use often. (I even have a Berdan deprimer from RCBS!) The equipment suggestion I was trying to make was just the essentials for someone on a budget.

Sorry to interrupt the discussions of rebellion.
- Ivan.
 

Lol - tip of the hat to you. I suspect you are a further on the path to total reloading enlightenment but I am not far off - and already learned something from you.
 
Nothing fancy, my old stand by .45 cal Colt auto and a Mini 14 for plinking around. I have been thinking of getting the Storm .45 cal but the Mini 14 Tactical looks good. Any suggestions for a good carbine? As much as I would love an M-14 or M-1, I do not want to spend the money for a new one.

DBII
 

There are some very good American made Kalashnikov reproductions out there that are inexpensive but much more accurate then the Com bloc arms.

 
Hi Drgondog,
Thanks for the compliment. Regarding 1 MOA rifles, M1, M1A, AR-15 can be tuned rather easily, but I really don't know any methods for SKS, AK, FAL, HK, Mauser 98, and the like. That doesn't mean that I own these rifles, but if one should come along at a good price legally, I would not turn it down even if the gun isn't expected to shoot MOA or better.

With M14 / M1A types, I don't know that I would spend the effort to square off the bolt face. Besides messing with headspace, you also would be changing firing pin portusion. Then again, it isn't much of a change.

Regarding some esoteric aspects of reloading, I really hate the expander balls that are used with typical rifle full length sizers. I bought some Redding S dies along with a couple bushings in the expected range of neck diameters for .308 Winchester in an attempt to full length size the case without the expander ball. I have not had the chance to try them yet. Another method would be an attempt to combine the Lee Collet set with some other method for reducing only the body of the case and a shoulder bump die. When you are using a Dillon 550 to just process rifle cases, there are quite a few possibilities with dies in each station.

- Ivan.
 

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