Okay whatever man.
The Ta-152.... The Best High Altitude Fighter?????
- Thread starter lesofprimus
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- Thread starter
- #83
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
There were several....
You dont read many of the other topics and posts here do u??? There have been great discussions here concerning what ur asking. Maybe u should read some more of the Topics and posts that some of the more esteemed members here were kind enough to research and post for us.........
You dont read many of the other topics and posts here do u??? There have been great discussions here concerning what ur asking. Maybe u should read some more of the Topics and posts that some of the more esteemed members here were kind enough to research and post for us.........
If the Ta-152 was pressed into wide service earlier, I suspect the Americans would have countered that threat with the XP-47J.
Image was taken in November of 1943.
From: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic7.html
The J was fitted with a high output version of the P&W R-2800. Specifically, the R-2800-57. This engine made 2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm at 35,000 feet. This is in War Emergency Power.
The aircraft actually attained 507 mph at an altitude of 34,300 feet. 2,800 hp is 133% of rated power. At military power (100%), the XP-47J could sustain 470 mph. 435 mph was attained at 81% of it's rated power (1,700 hp). All performance figures were obtained at 34,300 feet.
The J model was an especially good climbing fighter too. It had a climb rate at sea level of 4,900 fpm. At 20,000 feet, it was still rocketing up at 4,400 fpm, and got there in 4 minutes, 15 seconds. Time to 30,000 feet was only 6 minutes, 45 seconds. Now that's an interceptor! Yet it had a usable range of 1,075 miles. Rather impressive performance.
Nor was this a stripped down hotrod. It was fully armed and carried ballast in the wings equal to 267 rds per gun. The aircraft was flown to a height of 46,500 feet and was capable of a bit more.
Originally designed to defeat the FW-190 series fighters, the XP-47J certainly would have exceeded this requirement. In point of fact, with its critical Mach of .83, it had the potential to chase down Me-262's by utilizing a shallow dive, taking advantage of its superior service ceiling.
Image was taken in November of 1943.
From: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic7.html
The J was fitted with a high output version of the P&W R-2800. Specifically, the R-2800-57. This engine made 2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm at 35,000 feet. This is in War Emergency Power.
The aircraft actually attained 507 mph at an altitude of 34,300 feet. 2,800 hp is 133% of rated power. At military power (100%), the XP-47J could sustain 470 mph. 435 mph was attained at 81% of it's rated power (1,700 hp). All performance figures were obtained at 34,300 feet.
The J model was an especially good climbing fighter too. It had a climb rate at sea level of 4,900 fpm. At 20,000 feet, it was still rocketing up at 4,400 fpm, and got there in 4 minutes, 15 seconds. Time to 30,000 feet was only 6 minutes, 45 seconds. Now that's an interceptor! Yet it had a usable range of 1,075 miles. Rather impressive performance.
Nor was this a stripped down hotrod. It was fully armed and carried ballast in the wings equal to 267 rds per gun. The aircraft was flown to a height of 46,500 feet and was capable of a bit more.
Originally designed to defeat the FW-190 series fighters, the XP-47J certainly would have exceeded this requirement. In point of fact, with its critical Mach of .83, it had the potential to chase down Me-262's by utilizing a shallow dive, taking advantage of its superior service ceiling.
Erich
the old Sage
th Tank actually was destined to fly above 42,000 feet and using the glider mode drop down on P-51 escorts and then zoom up and flip over and repeat....
- Thread starter
- #86
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
This is true... Loos actually got a few kills doing that same manouver...
Interesting phenomena...
...that superb German fighters which effectively saw service during the final days of the war are put into "doubt" due to the limited numbers reaching fighter units but unexplicably predict an alleged "superiority" of whatever of their designs which did not see any action during WWII.
Since the Ta 152 saw service and proved being a top machine I am more than convinced this allegedly superior plane -which did not see service- could be surpassed.
If we decide to play in the same pond, the Do 335, which did not see service, but got duly tested could also be a superior machine if compared to this particular USAAF fighter.
...that superb German fighters which effectively saw service during the final days of the war are put into "doubt" due to the limited numbers reaching fighter units but unexplicably predict an alleged "superiority" of whatever of their designs which did not see any action during WWII.
Since the Ta 152 saw service and proved being a top machine I am more than convinced this allegedly superior plane -which did not see service- could be surpassed.
If we decide to play in the same pond, the Do 335, which did not see service, but got duly tested could also be a superior machine if compared to this particular USAAF fighter.
evangilder
"Shooter"
I have to agree in this case. We can only speculate how the XP-47J would have faired in aerial combat. The speed and climb rate are impressive, but that doesn't say how it would be in a dogfight. The Do-335 is said in some circles to have been the finest piston fighter of all time. It too was an impressive aircraft, but also untested in combat.
Gentlermen, before we all get our panties in a bunch, all I said was, "I suspect the Americans would have countered that threat with the XP-47J." I never said that the XP-47J would be superior.(I was thinking it however. 
)
We do know that the XP-47J was flying during the latter part of 1943 and was developed specifically to handle the Fw-190. How it would have actually fared in such combat had it gone into production we will obviously never know.
It should be borne in mind though that this was not an entirely untested and new combat design. It was essentially just a lighter and more aerodynamic P-47 Razorback with a 2,800hp "C" series turbo-supercharged engine within a close fitted cowling. I understand that it employed the same wings, tail, rudder and control surfaces.
)We do know that the XP-47J was flying during the latter part of 1943 and was developed specifically to handle the Fw-190. How it would have actually fared in such combat had it gone into production we will obviously never know.
It should be borne in mind though that this was not an entirely untested and new combat design. It was essentially just a lighter and more aerodynamic P-47 Razorback with a 2,800hp "C" series turbo-supercharged engine within a close fitted cowling. I understand that it employed the same wings, tail, rudder and control surfaces.
evangilder
"Shooter"
Hey now, leave my panties out of this! 
- Thread starter
- #91
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
The Pink ones or the Lavender Blue ones with that Butterfly on em???
evangilder
"Shooter"
I was thinking of the racy lacy ones, with the optional bulge.
- Thread starter
- #93
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
OK, but that bulge in the back will leave a brown stain tho...
evangilder
"Shooter"
That is the problem some people here (I am not saying you Davidicus ) tend to automatically asume that certain aircraft (mostly allied aircraft) would have been the best things since woman and crotchless panties 8) . They automatically dispute Japanese or German aircraft because they did not see any service but an allied aircraft that was the same way is okay.
I too think the Do-335 could have been one great machine had it been given the chance, however based on actually seeing service the Ta-152 in my opinion and probably the opinion of many experts (which I am not) was the most superior piston aircraft to see service in WW2.
) tend to automatically asume that certain aircraft (mostly allied aircraft) would have been the best things since woman and crotchless panties 8) . They automatically dispute Japanese or German aircraft because they did not see any service but an allied aircraft that was the same way is okay.I too think the Do-335 could have been one great machine had it been given the chance, however based on actually seeing service the Ta-152 in my opinion and probably the opinion of many experts (which I am not) was the most superior piston aircraft to see service in WW2.
DAVIDICUS said:Gentlermen, before we all get our panties in a bunch, all I said was, "I suspect the Americans would have countered that threat with the XP-47J." I never said that the XP-47J would be superior.(I was thinking it however.
We do know that the XP-47J was flying during the latter part of 1943 and was developed specifically to handle the Fw-190. How it would have actually fared in such combat had it gone into production we will obviously never know.
It should be borne in mind though that this was not an entirely untested and new combat design. It was essentially just a lighter and more aerodynamic P-47 Razorback with a 2,800hp "C" series turbo-supercharged engine within a close fitted cowling. I understand that it employed the same wings, tail, rudder and control surfaces.
And the Ta-152 was also pretty much the same. It was an evolution of the Fw-190D-9. I am not sure if it is true but I have read that the last 190D-9 to come off of the assembly line were renamed Ta-152's.
Erich
the old Sage
The Germans would have countered with increased useage of a newer Me 262 jet streamlined with overall much better fuel efficient engines and amored to boot..........Ta's would of been used for airifield protection
Jupp Keil I believe was the only Ta 152 ace with 6 kills in the craft. Walter Loos and Will Reschke came close I think with 4 each. Bubi Bloom got 1-2
Jupp Keil I believe was the only Ta 152 ace with 6 kills in the craft. Walter Loos and Will Reschke came close I think with 4 each. Bubi Bloom got 1-2
Off topic but speaking of the 262. Didn't Willie Messerschmitt build a version of the 262 called for the Shneider Cup in 1949? Not sure if I am correct here, that is why I am asking.
Erich
the old Sage
not sure but the Soviets tried to elaborate on the desgin from captured stocks near Prague at wars end
Yes I have read on them.
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