Top Medium Bomber

AL Schlageter · Nov 17, 2007

FLYBOYJ said:
Great post Al - it all amounted to training and the same holds true today for those who fly twin engine aircraft.

Which would explain the low loss rate in the ETO after the crew became familiar with the B-26.

glennasher · Nov 17, 2007

The Marauder was used briefly in the Pacific, as they could carry two torpedoes, they went in on the initial strike from Midway, IIRC.

Lucky13 · Nov 17, 2007

I have to go with the B-25 fellas. But, with the B-26, Mosquito and Ju-88 in close second place.... I think taht we can also look at how many versions that was made of each aircraft...hard to beat the Mosquito and the Ju-88 there me thinks....

HoHun · Nov 17, 2007

Hi Glennasher,

>The Marauder was used briefly in the Pacific, as they could carry two torpedoes, they went in on the initial strike from Midway, IIRC.

Correct! Coincedentally, I just found this paragraph:

"LT [Tadashi] Kaneko happened to be on board the Akgi. On 4 June, he observed the wave formation attacks on his aircraft carrier and could no longer contain himself. Taking off from the carrier with four of his pilots, Kaneko intercepted and shot down two large torpedo planes."

(from Japanese Naval Aces and Fighter Units in World War II by Hata/Izawa)

I guess "large torpedo planes" must have been the Marauders, though they were actually in the first attack wave. Attachking from Akagi's starboard bow, Marauder leader Captain Collins also observed that they were attacked by six Zeros that had been previously fighting the Avengers on the port bow - so they were apparently already in the air at the time of the attack.

However, situational awareness in such a tight spot probably was not perfect anyway, and from the sound it, I figure the Japanese text might be sort of symbolic to express the fighting spirit of the Zero pilots. (Or maybe there's just something "lost in translation" - if the sentence would read "Having taken off ...", the contradiction would be resolved.)

Certainly the Marauders were the only twin-engined "torpedo planes" to attack at Midway, and they actually lost two out of the four attacking.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

syscom3 · Nov 17, 2007

pbfoot said:
I believe most of the accidents were the result of poor training and not the fault of the aircraft, its a myth thats lasted from the 40's til the present

True. But remember the B26B model had a larger wing to lower the takeoff and landing speeds.

Either way, it isn't a good sign that you have to stop production of your primary medium bomber in the middle of a war to redesign the wing.

FLYBOYJ · Nov 17, 2007

AL Schlageter said:
Which would explain the low loss rate in the ETO after the crew became familiar with the B-26.

Exactly - In many cases there was little or no transition training when a single engine pilot went into flying twin engine medium bombers.

mkloby · Nov 17, 2007

FLYBOYJ said:
Exactly - In many cases there was little or no transition training when a single engine pilot went into flying twin engine medium bombers.

Ahhh same thing!

davparlr · Nov 17, 2007

Like cargo planes, bombers trade off load verses range. I prefer that the size of the bomber be rated on load carrying capacity, gross weight minus empty weight. While not completely accurate, it does give an idea of the total trade-off capability the aircraft has. The B-17 has a load carrying capacity of normally about 21000 lbs, the B-25 normally about 15000, the Mosquito normally about 5000 lbs (about the same as the P-38) or 11000 lbs if you pump it up to max TO weight (but you would have to adjust the performance of the other medium bombers to make equal). I don't think the Mosquito falls into the realm of medium bomber.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Because it could carry a bomb load of 4000lb and there were dedicated bomber versions which were:

Mosquito B.Mk IX: 1200 built
Mosquito B.Mk V: 1 built ( prototype only)
Mosquito B.Mk 35: 122 built

I think that 2000 lbs was more the normal bomb load. I am sure the loss of some 350 gallons of gas would have a significant impact on range.

I am not sure on this last bit of info but I believe the Mossie could carry 6000lb over a very short distance.

With an empty weight of 14900 lbs and a max take off weight of 22400 lbs. minus 6000 lbs of bombs that leaves 1500 lbs of fuel and pilots, etc. Hmmm, that's about 170 gallons of fuel. Can you start two merlins on 170 gallons? Actually, its probably less than one hour of flight, probably about half after start, takeoff and climb, and approach and landing (with no reserve!). Very little useful range. If you loaded a B-25 to gross and put on only enough full for one hours flight, can you imagine the load you could carry?

FLYBOYJ · Nov 17, 2007

mkloby said:
Ahhh same thing!

HoHun · Nov 17, 2007

Hi Adler,

>Basically a Medium Bomber can carry 3000lb+ of bombs. This ofcourse is what I am basing a Medium Bomber off of.

I have looked up the Do 17 and Do 215, and it seems they were limited to a 1000 kg bomb load (2205 lbs). So technically, they are not medium bombers according to your definition.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

ppopsie · Nov 17, 2007

Recently I found a research paper titled "World War II War Production-Why Were the B-17 and B-24 Produced in Parallel?" in which Jimmy Doolittle commented against the B-24. Another guy's comment about the type's loss while trainings in the paper too.

World War II War Production-Why Were the B-17 and B-24 Produced in Parallel?

About the Battle of Midway, an old JAL captain named Fujita one day after the war talked about his experience in Midway to his American co-pilot, that Fujita in his Zero couldn't caught up with a US twin engine torpedo plane which was so fast on the deck. Then his mate said "I was there I flew that one."

Heinz · Nov 17, 2007

Mosquito for me however after that the JU88 and He111.

Mossie's attributes have already been mentioned.
The ju88 because of its versility.
The heinkel just cause I like it

AL Schlageter · Nov 17, 2007

B-25J
1275mi with 3200lb of bombs and 811 Imp gal of fuel at max cruise
Max short range bomb load - 4000lb

Mosquito B XVI
1370mi with 4000lb of bombs and 643 Imp gal of fuel at 245mph
Max TO weight B XVI - 25,917lb

DerAdlerIstGelandet
1200 is the number of B XVIs built. Only 54 B IXs were built. If you meant the B IV, there was only 263 built with 20 moded to carry 4000lb.

[3.0] Hornet Sea Hornet / Variant Summary

ppopsie · Nov 17, 2007

One thing I would like to point out about the Mosquito is that its pure bomber version was not produced as many as the other versions like fighter, fighter bomber and recce planes.

renrich · Nov 18, 2007

Dav, I believe your definition of a medium bomber based on useful load makes a lot of sense. I am voting for the B26 Marauder, giving it the edge over the B25 because of loss rate and higher performance.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 18, 2007

HoHun said:
Hi Adler,

>I would not count the P-38 as a bomber at all. A fighter-bomber at the most. It was formost a fighter.

Are you aware that there was a dedicated bomber version of the P-38 that featured a glass nose housing a bombardiers position and a Norden bomb sight?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Yes they were called Droopsnoots and they were actually pathfinders for overloaded regular P-38s carrying 2000lb of bombs. One of the Droopsnoots would lead the formation and then they would drop there bombs on the mark of the Droopsnoot.

Not very many were made and this still can not count as a "medium bomber".

Infact I dont believe any were actually "built". They were all field modified P-38J's and P-38L's.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 18, 2007

davparlr said:
I think that 2000 lbs was more the normal bomb load. I am sure the loss of some 350 gallons of gas would have a significant impact on range.

You are certainly correct that 4000lb was probably not the normal load. That does not take away from the fact that it could...

davparlr said:
With an empty weight of 14900 lbs and a max take off weight of 22400 lbs. minus 6000 lbs of bombs that leaves 1500 lbs of fuel and pilots, etc. Hmmm, that's about 170 gallons of fuel. Can you start two merlins on 170 gallons? Actually, its probably less than one hour of flight, probably about half after start, takeoff and climb, and approach and landing (with no reserve!). Very little useful range. If you loaded a B-25 to gross and put on only enough full for one hours flight, can you imagine the load you could carry?

Why do you think I said I was not sure on that and for you all not to take my word for it....

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 18, 2007

HoHun said:
Hi Adler,

>Basically a Medium Bomber can carry 3000lb+ of bombs. This ofcourse is what I am basing a Medium Bomber off of.

I have looked up the Do 17 and Do 215, and it seems they were limited to a 1000 kg bomb load (2205 lbs). So technically, they are not medium bombers according to your definition.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

I have an idea for you...

Rather than sitting there and complaining about every aircraft that someone mentions or puts in the poll, why dont you make all the polls from now on?

Jesus Christ!

Marcel · Nov 18, 2007

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I have an idea for you...

Rather than sitting there and complaining about every aircraft that someone mentions or puts in the poll, why dont you make all the polls from now on?

Jesus Christ!

It's a hard job to create a good poll

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 18, 2007

I think it is actually a pretty good poll. There are just some people that would rather argue the merits of it rather than discuss aircraft.

Top Medium Bomber

Top Medium Bomber

Arado Ar 234 Blitz

Dornier Do 17

Dornier Do 215

Heinkel He 111

Junkers Ju 88

Junkers Ju 188

Junkers Ju 288

Douglas A-20 Havoc

Douglas A-26 Invader

North American B-25 Mitchell

Martin B-26 Marauder

Bristol Beaufort

Bristol Brigand

Bristol Buckingham

Hadley Page Hampden

de Havilland Mosquito

Mitsubishi Ki-21

Mitsubishi Ki-67 Hiryu "Flying Dragon"

Mitsubishi G4M "Betty"

Yokosuka P1Y Ginga "Milky Way"

Ilyushin Il-4

Tupolev Tu-2

Petlyakov Pe-2

Banned

Senior Airman

Forum Mascot

Tech Sergeant

Pacific Historian

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Senior Master Sergeant

Senior Master Sergeant

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Tech Sergeant

Senior Airman

Captain

Banned

Senior Airman

Chief Master Sergeant

Private Chemtrail Disperser

Private Chemtrail Disperser

Private Chemtrail Disperser

rotartsinimdA

Private Chemtrail Disperser

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