UK Teachers to stop teaching the Holocaust...

[Royzee617]

I agree, everyone should have a choice. My kids do GCSE history and are sick of being told about Hitler. My son was peeved because they don't cover the battles.... it's all BS. Maybe the teachers are sick of it as well year after year...
Don't get me wrong about this but I am fed up of them harping on about the jewish side. My dad lost his parents in Auschwitz and a lot of friends et al who were catholics but it's always about the jews. The nazis wanted to do away with everyone who stood in their way, muslims would probably have been represented in Auschwitz as well.
The upshot is everyone should be more tolerant of our cosmopolitan society. Give and take so we can all get along on this increasingly crowded planet.

 

[Derfman]

This crap is so common these days....

For the record, I'm in the process of changing careers, from USAF Emergency Management to Teaching (Masters degree for teaching History).

Job be damned, I WILL cover the Holocaust, and I will raise holy hell if my boss tells me to stop.

Having said that, this sort of thing CAN be done even in difficult settings...

Case in point, when I was doing my Internship, another older Intern teacher at a different school was suspose to teaching the Holocaust, but he had German exchange students in his class, and was not sure how to proceed. While its easy to just say "teach it", HE had to teach something that could cause those kids some serious discomfort.

What I told him:

#1: DON'T dodge the issue (he was not trying to, but still, he had some concerns, and rightly so).

Then I suggested he make a major theme of his lesson the point that INDIVIDUALS can still make moral decisions in spite of were they might find themselves. I handed him my copy of "The Rape of Nanking", which had the Nazi Ambassador as the unlikely hero, and then there is Oscar Schindler, The Society of The White Rose, and so on.

I spent two days on LOAC (Law of Armed Conflict) in my classes. My personal objective was to get across the idea that there is a difference between a piece subhuman crap that sets off a bomb at a sidewalk cafe (suicide or not.....), and a soldier that shoots at an opposing soldier but hits a civilan in the crossfire. One is to be honored, and the other is not even really human.

For the record, I know that calling someone "subhuman" disturbs some folks, but stop and think about a key point: Is it based on the way the folks are, or on the DECISIONS they make?
When some pervert sets off a bomb at a side walk cafe, or rapes and kills a young child for their sick pleasure, I REFUSE to accept them as human, and I'll say that out loud, and with force. They don't even rate being called "animals".
You DO, however, give them a fair trial, NOT because they "deserve it" (they don't), but because rule by law is important, because WE deserve rule by law. Also, equally important, to be as sure as humanly possible that you have right suspect. Even when it looks REALLY clear cut, law by the numbers, even for the worst offenders.

 

[Derfman]

I agree, everyone should have a choice. My kids do GCSE history and are sick of being told about Hitler. My son was peeved because they don't cover the battles.... it's all BS. Maybe the teachers are sick of it as well year after year...
Don't get me wrong about this but I am fed up of them harping on about the jewish side. My dad lost his parents in Auschwitz and a lot of friends et al who were catholics but it's always about the jews. The nazis wanted to do away with everyone who stood in their way, muslims would probably have been represented in Auschwitz as well.
The upshot is everyone should be more tolerant of our cosmopolitan society. Give and take so we can all get along on this increasingly crowded planet.

When I've dealt with the holocaust one of the first questions I ask is "How many "people" were murdered in the holocaust? Its sad how often I hear 6,000,000. One point I beat into heads: If you forget the roughly 5,000,000 people that died along side the Jews, how long until the 6,000,000 follow them to forgetfulness?
Jewish organizations should NEVER say 6,000,000 unless they use 11,000,000 in the same breath. If you can forget 5,000,000, forgetting 6,000,000 is not a hard step.

 

[Udet]

Do not forget the ~20 million human beings that died due to bolshevik policies in the USSR.

 

[Derfman]

Do not forget the ~20 million human beings that died due to bolshevik policies in the USSR.

Oh, trust me, I know, and state, that Mr. Hitler was #3 on the 20th century butcher parade.

About the only defense I give Communism is that the theory it is based on a yearning for "fairness", but the theory put into practice was worse than what it replaced. "Fairness" is a dangerous word, even if you should strive for it.

One interesting compare and contrast I've always liked are the transformations to democracy in the U.S., France and Britain. The British was complex, arguably the most peaceful, and over the most time. The U.S. revolution had some violence, but surprisingly mild compared to many civil wars, then and now. The French had an UGLY period of terror and state sponsored murder, then some war, etc, but at the end, after a few starts and stops, they had a proper and free democratic state (for the record, Napoleon is one of those figures in history that I love and hate at the same time (and I often excuse many of his flaws due the situations he was in), but I have nothing but contempt for the terror, regardless of how it came to pass).

 

[Maestro]

For my personnal knowledge, if you put Hitler in third place of the "20th century butcher parade", who is in first and second ?

 

[Derfman]

For my personnal knowledge, if you put Hitler in third place of the "20th century butcher parade", who is in first and second ?

#1 Mao
#2 Stalin

If you REACH, you can argue for some others, but it starts getting feeble REALLY fast. Rachel Carson for example. You can argue with 100% truth that she had a major part in about 100 million 3rd world malaria deaths, due to her part in banning DDT, but its just not the same. In spite of what some folks say, I don't believe she "intended" that. I believe she "intended" to get less chemicals in the environment, and she was just stupid about it. Mao and Stalin however had a pretty good idea about what they were doing, and were rather direct about it.

Other suggest contenders for the top 3 slots are even feebler (such as western capitalism killing more people than Hitler....)

 

[Njaco]

Derfman, I like your posts. I would have placed Stalin at #1 but whose to quibble. I agree those 3 are the worst.

When did school leave the field of truth and fall into the quagmire of revisionist ideas? It kills me when I hear this crap.

 

[krieghund]

Remember the Head Iman dude from Palestine (previous to 66BC was known as Judea until some roman couldn't pronounce philistine and the name stuck) made a deal with Hitler just as the war was begining to throw in their support for the 3rd Reich and then diappeared for a while when Germany lost. They did a similar thing in kuwait when Sadam rolled in, they fingered all the important kuwatis who were hung, shot or beheaded and then the Iraqis lost and history repeated itself again. I live and work in Saudi and I could fill volumes....by the way gas is only $.41 per gallon here

 

[Adolf Galland Fighter ace]

Well I guess I can say their are no Muslim members here?
Just a thought but by denying them there right to believe if the Holocaust happened is that not the reverse of saying it did happen? or saying their anti Semitic! and racial slurs!, hate, the same as what the Jews have reminded us regularly they face daily. What difference?

OK before I ruffle any ailerons I agree they should put any Muslim on the first boat back to what ever place we decide fit. Islam is a global threat and we don't seem as a people to understand, or just don't care.

I read most posts but if I have repeated any post it was not meant

 

[Njaco]

Just a thought but by denying them there right to believe if the Holocaust happened is that not the reverse of saying it did happen? or saying their anti Semitic! and racial slurs!, hate, the same as what the Jews have reminded us regularly they face daily. What difference?

No really sure what you're getting at but the difference? Its as big as right from wrong. It begins with morals and a gut feeling that you're being crapped on.

Do you like it when muslims have the right to wear head scarfs in courts, in the military, in almost anywhere but you can't wear shorts to school?

Do you like the United Negro College Fund, Black Miss America or Affirmative Action but can't be openly proud of your race?

Do you like illegal aliens who come across the border, can get health care, go to schools, not pay taxes, have organizations to provide lawyers for you and get a drivers license and you get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt?

Isn't wonderful to see Louis Farrakhan spout hate and filth and lies while you can be sent to jail for painting a swatiska?

Its a cry for fair play and not everyone is playing by the rules. Of all those groups who shout the loudest, the Jewish faith have a right to focus on their plight - going back to Spain and the Bible.

Muslim countries like Iran shout there is no holocaust because they're racists, bigoted idiots. Its reverse racism and discrimination unlike the percieved slights against other minorities and religions.

Well I guess I can say their are no Muslim members here?

This being an international forum, I'm sure Muslims would be welcome here as long as they show respect to everyone else regardless of religon or personal opinion. But I can't see that happening. Don't know any muslim who is that forgiving.

 

[Lucky13]

Pol Pot and Idi Amin will probably be in the top 10....
With some of that I've read...I fear that history will repeat itself thanks to all the f*cking f*annies and idiots that run the scool system today and those pain in the *rse w*nkers that's running this with political correctness sh*te...
You can't teach without telling and showing the truth and by doing so, it won't be political correct, because you might offend someone....!
Why don't you all go and f*ck your neighbours dog you bl**dy two timing no good f*cking *ssholes...!!!

 

[Njaco]

I think you just said what I did but in a slight ruffian way!

 

[Lucky13]

....and I was being polite and political correct about it....

 

[Adolf Galland Fighter ace]

I guess this is my point quickly, if only Jews can speak of the Holocaust which is there freedom then why can't another disagree? Like the way it seems today all can have there opinion but whites, what ever we say or believe is raciest, at least from where I look. IMHO

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I guess this is my point quickly, if only Jews can speak of the Holocaust which is there freedom then why can't another disagree? Like the way it seems today all can have there opinion but whites, what ever we say or believe is raciest, at least from where I look. IMHO

I dont quite understand what you are getting at.

How can anyone disagree that the Holocaust happened?

 

[Lucky13]

Bit confused myself mate....holocaust happened...end of story.

 

[Adolf Galland Fighter ace]

No disputing the holocaust, tons of film and text on the subject, just saying we don't like everyone else seems to be able to do what they want, but if a white person looks the wrong way it is discrimination, yet many blacks and Muslims say and want to live in a different country but expect us too bow to there every wish.
Rap that if reversed would get a white person arrested is cool and nothing said or done.
My point is we want the right to freedom of speech or thought and don't have in reality but when I think it was Iran that said there was no holocaust we want to drop a nuke on them.
We can disagree as is are right but they too have right to speak, even if there are no moral values.
It's the difference between civilized and Neanderthal thinking.

I hope this makes more sense on what I'm trying to say, I can't express any other way to put it.
The fact America has a Kosher tax I think shows the belief without any doubt the Holocaust happened.

 

[Njaco]

What is a Kosher tax?

 

[Lucky13]

From Wikipedia...

The "Kosher tax" (or "Jewish tax") is a canard or urban legend spread by antisemitic, white supremacist and other extremist organizations such as the National Alliance and Ku Klux Klan. It refers to the claim that food producers must pay an exorbitant amount to obtain the right to display a symbol on their products (often a K or U in a circle) that indicates it is kosher or pareve, and that this cost is passed on to consumers through higher prices which constitute a "kosher tax". Additional false claims are made that this "tax" is "extorted" from food companies wishing to avoid a boycott, and used to support Zionist causes or the state of Israel.

Racist groups encourage consumers to avoid this "Jewish tax" by boycotting kosher products, or by requesting a refund from the government on their income taxes. In 1997 the Canada Revenue Agency issued a news release noting the existence of flyers recommending that consumers claim a deduction on their taxes "because they supposedly contributed to a Jewish religious organization when they purchased these groceries." In it Jane Stewart, the Minister of National Revenue stated "The intent and message in this literature is deeply offensive to the Jewish community and, indeed, to all Canadians. The so-called 'deduction' described in these flyers does not exist and I urge all taxpayers to ignore this misleading advice."

The actual cost to the consumer is generally minuscule; in 1975 the cost per item for obtaining kosher certification was estimated by The New York Times as being 6.5 millionths (0.0000065) of a cent per item for a typical product. This is more than offset by the advantages of being certified. Certification leads to increased revenues of sales by opening up the additional markets such as Jews who keep kosher; Muslims who keep halal; and vegans, Seventh-day Adventists, and the lactose intolerant who wish to avoid dairy products (products that are certified as pareve may meet this criterion). According to Berel Wein, "The cost of kashrut certification is always viewed as an advertising expense and not as a manufacturing expense." Dispellers of the "kosher tax" legend argue that if it were not profitable to obtain such certification, then food producers would not engage in the certification process, and that the increased sales resulting from kosher certification actually lower the overall cost per item.

Obtaining certification that an item is kosher is a voluntary business decision made by companies desiring additional sales from consumers (both Jewish and non-Jewish) who look for kosher certification when shopping, and is actually specifically sought by marketing organizations within food production companies. The fees charged for kosher certification are used to support the operation of the certifying bodies themselves, and not Zionist causes or Israel.