Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Great stuff Wojtek. I had the info somewhere, but not sure where, and had to go up to Yorkshire today anyway, so no chance to search.
United States Aircraft Markings
- Thread starter Micdrow
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net_sailor
Senior Airman
Many thanks Wojtek! General regulations are quite useful.
I found a description for applying markings on P-51:
*** CRAZY HORSE AVIATION PHOTOGRAPHY ***
But I'm aware to follow with these rules. I think some mistakes occurred in the text. Looking at the pictures: the wing markings seems is too small and fuselage star position too close to the end of rudder.
I would be very grateful for pointing me such information about P-51, as I saw earlier on this topic for B-17, Avenger etc...
I found a description for applying markings on P-51:
*** CRAZY HORSE AVIATION PHOTOGRAPHY ***
But I'm aware to follow with these rules. I think some mistakes occurred in the text. Looking at the pictures: the wing markings seems is too small and fuselage star position too close to the end of rudder.
I would be very grateful for pointing me such information about P-51, as I saw earlier on this topic for B-17, Avenger etc...
P51 A: wing: roundel D 46" at 56" 1/2 from wing tip and 24" aileron cutout - Fuselage roundel D 46 at 169" 1/2 of trailing edge rudder
P51B&C: wing: roundel+bar, D 35" at 56" 1/2 from wing tip and 24" aileron cutout; Fuselage roundel D 30" centered Sta 211* & horizontal ref.
P51D: wing: roundel+bar, D 35" at 24" from wing tip splice line and 24" aileron cutout - Fuselage roundel D 30" centered Sta 211* & horizontal ref.
P51H: wing: roundel+bar, D 35" centered station 161 and tangent cutout - Fuselage roundel D 40" centered Sta 266 & WL -6" 1/2(below horiz ref).
Insignia P51 B C & D : D= diameter containing the star ; lenght of bar = D/2 ; outline constant 2"
Insignia P51 H : D= dia of star ; lenght of bar = D/2 ; outline constant 2"1/2
* or 116" from rudder cutout
P51B&C: wing: roundel+bar, D 35" at 56" 1/2 from wing tip and 24" aileron cutout; Fuselage roundel D 30" centered Sta 211* & horizontal ref.
P51D: wing: roundel+bar, D 35" at 24" from wing tip splice line and 24" aileron cutout - Fuselage roundel D 30" centered Sta 211* & horizontal ref.
P51H: wing: roundel+bar, D 35" centered station 161 and tangent cutout - Fuselage roundel D 40" centered Sta 266 & WL -6" 1/2(below horiz ref).
Insignia P51 B C & D : D= diameter containing the star ; lenght of bar = D/2 ; outline constant 2"
Insignia P51 H : D= dia of star ; lenght of bar = D/2 ; outline constant 2"1/2
* or 116" from rudder cutout
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net_sailor
Senior Airman
Many thanks for this info. Very useful description!
- Thread starter
- #85
- Thread starter
- #87
Nope. Looking great ! THX for posting, Paul.
Would love to seen that one in color. Seems very unusual to be painted that way that's for sure.
net_sailor
Senior Airman
I would say: the picture was taken in US. The trees on foreground are not tropical species and concrete runway/tarmac are quite rare on Pacific islands and well maintained too.
- Thread starter
- #90
Makes sense, many thanks
Drawing © by Hans-Jürgen Fischer
Regards Hans-Jürgen F.
Attachments
Looks like the 13 is painted over a shamrock
varsity07840
Airman 1st Class
- 176
- Jun 25, 2013
Could be in the Philippines. PBYs had a similar finish.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
I thought this looked like a nice reference to have.
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PlasticHero
Senior Airman
I found this interesting article about Olive Drab and while it is mostly about tanks, there is some mention of USAAF.
http://mojobob.com/stuff/Zaloga - Olive Drab.pdf
Although the USAAF started using Olive Drab Colour No. 22 Olive Drab on their aircraft, it was felt that this colour was too light. As a result, starting in 1932, the USAAF began to adopt a dark Olive Drab, that is, darker than the Army Ground Forces Olive Drab. This dark Olive Drab was first known as Colour Number 31 for the water based camouflage paints. In October 1940, it was standardised as Dark Olive Drab 41 for dopes, enamels, and lacquers.
As part of this process, in January 1943, Major A.I. Totten Jr. of the Army Resources and Production Division proposed to consolidate the two shades of Olive Drab in use at the time, the USAAF dark Olive Drab and the AGF Olive Drab, into a new colour Army/Navy (AN) 319, that was the same colour as the AGF Olive Drab. The Air Force went a bit nuts over this, as in 1942, they had developed a new paint formulation of their dark Olive Drab that would not show up well on infrared film. The AGF Olive Drab paint did not have this characteristic. As a result, the USAAF studiously avoided use of the new 319 Olive Drab. This issue may seem irrelevant to tank modellers. But it is an important issue since it helps demolish a popular myth amongst some modellers and vehicle restorers. A legend has developed over the years that the light 319 Olive Drab was also adopted by the AGF, so that after 1943, the Army began painting their tanks and tactical vehicles in a lighter shade of Olive Drab. This was not the case, as the aeronautical 319 Olive Drab was identical in colour to standard AGF Olive Drab, and was only light in comparison to the USAAF dark Olive Drab.
If I read this correctly, it seems that from 32 to 43 USAAF OD was darker then AGF, afterward it was the same. He also talks about weathering, and scale effect.
http://mojobob.com/stuff/Zaloga - Olive Drab.pdf
Although the USAAF started using Olive Drab Colour No. 22 Olive Drab on their aircraft, it was felt that this colour was too light. As a result, starting in 1932, the USAAF began to adopt a dark Olive Drab, that is, darker than the Army Ground Forces Olive Drab. This dark Olive Drab was first known as Colour Number 31 for the water based camouflage paints. In October 1940, it was standardised as Dark Olive Drab 41 for dopes, enamels, and lacquers.
As part of this process, in January 1943, Major A.I. Totten Jr. of the Army Resources and Production Division proposed to consolidate the two shades of Olive Drab in use at the time, the USAAF dark Olive Drab and the AGF Olive Drab, into a new colour Army/Navy (AN) 319, that was the same colour as the AGF Olive Drab. The Air Force went a bit nuts over this, as in 1942, they had developed a new paint formulation of their dark Olive Drab that would not show up well on infrared film. The AGF Olive Drab paint did not have this characteristic. As a result, the USAAF studiously avoided use of the new 319 Olive Drab. This issue may seem irrelevant to tank modellers. But it is an important issue since it helps demolish a popular myth amongst some modellers and vehicle restorers. A legend has developed over the years that the light 319 Olive Drab was also adopted by the AGF, so that after 1943, the Army began painting their tanks and tactical vehicles in a lighter shade of Olive Drab. This was not the case, as the aeronautical 319 Olive Drab was identical in colour to standard AGF Olive Drab, and was only light in comparison to the USAAF dark Olive Drab.
If I read this correctly, it seems that from 32 to 43 USAAF OD was darker then AGF, afterward it was the same. He also talks about weathering, and scale effect.
Hi PlasticHero,
Just to be clear, OD 319 was the Army color in the May 1943 issue of Spec 3-1. The ANA color (from the June 1943 edition) was OD 613. The two are nearly identical - only the number is changed to protect the innocent...
Cheers,
Dana
Just to be clear, OD 319 was the Army color in the May 1943 issue of Spec 3-1. The ANA color (from the June 1943 edition) was OD 613. The two are nearly identical - only the number is changed to protect the innocent...
Cheers,
Dana
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