US Aircraft to England?

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Further to Terry's post, I think folks from over the pond sometimes fail to appreciate just how long the inhabitants of the rocks known as the UK have spent fighting each other over who gets to live where, and how this has shaped national identity. The Scots and the various occupants of modern-day England have fought each other since pre-Roman times, and this only ended in 1746, 40 years after England and Scotland were legally bound together and 143 years after a Scottish king first assumed the English throne (although by 1746 the Royals were the Hanoverian ancestors of the German mob we currently have on the throne!) Scotland still remains part of the UK, although in recent years, calls for Scottish independence have, IMHO, become louder and more frequent.

Wales was officially incorporated into England between 1535 and 1542, although there had been fighting and castle-building in the area for around 5 centuries beforehand. Wales eventually emerged from English domination between 1881 and 1999, at which time it gained a semi-devolved parliament of it's own.

Northern Ireland (and Ireland as a whole) has had a violent and well-documented past with England since at least the 15th century, with serious efforts at colonisation made in the 16th, which can be seen as the earliest origins of the violence which has ended in the past decade.

All three of these major constituents of the UK have active nationalist political parties, and movements which promote the use of the distinctive languages of the regions. They also, at some point, have also given rise to groups which have engaged in terrorist activity against the English government and it's representatives. Cornwall also has similar movements, which have been know to resort to terrorist activity, the last being just a few years ago.

So, you can see how folks who aren't 'English' in the strict sense take offense at being called English. And conversely, there is a strong popular streak of English nationalism which tends to the opinion that England should separate itself from it's island neighbours and rule only itself. So we're quite an argumentative lot on these islands when it comes to our nationality...
 
SOD stitich, very nearly correct, except the original inhabitants were the Britons, not British. The last survivors of these peoples, and therefore probably the true heirs to these islands (our 'redskins' if you like) are the Welsh, Ironically 'Welsh' means 'foreigners' in old English. The area of England where I live was also right on the border between the Anglo Saxon kingdoms and the Danelaw, many words in our common language today are Danish. If you have any interest in this whatsoever (the evolution of of our Language from prehistory to today) I recomment Melvyn Braggs 'The Adventure of English' as a damn good read. Not that it has anything to do with aeroplanes.

The UK is the Mainland of England Scotland and Wales, plus Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the mainland alone, without NI.

The Queen is the the Queen of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth, which is itself a loose confederation of countries that were once part of the empire but are now voluntarily bound together, but politically independant and self governing.
 
Alright thanks guys... I think I get it now. So basically Wales and Scotland are part of the UK, but are not English per se. Correct me if I'm wrong, but its kinda like how i'm from Nevada, and it would be incorrect to just assume I'm from Washington D.C. just because that is the capital. I'm American, but not "Washintonian".

So Wales and Scotland are part of the UK, but act independantly from England? I'm sorry to keep asking questions but I kinda want to understand this.
 
Bomb Taxi, I think you are right about many Americans forgetting the old European politics. When immigrants from Europe came to America they did tend to build or live in communities of their own countrymen. But as the years have passed the European-Americans have tended to intermarry with other nationalities. I trace my name and my ancient lineage back to the Vikings who settled Scotland. I am well aware of the reason my family ended up in the New World. They fought for Bonnie Prince Charles and were forced to leave Scotland. I find this conversation fascinating and needed. I will always have a place in my heart for the British Isles.

You will find a heavy Anglo-Saxon influence here in the States as our founding fathers were Scotts and English mostly.
 
I'm glad that some of us over this side of the 'pond' have been able to clarify(?) at least a little bit about 'England', the 'UK' and the 'British Isles'.
Obviously, we (over here!) take it for granted, and expect (possibly unreasonably so) that others will understand it easily and simply.
However, there are still some things here that continue to confuse and confound even the inhabitants of these fair isles, the variation in dialects being a good example. Waynos mentioned that part of the language in some parts of the country are made up from the Danish language, which is very true, and I suspect that he (Waynos) is from the area where I originate from.
There are regions here where the inhabitants can't understand what is being said by those from a different region, and I'm not exagerating! As Waynos mentioned, with the Danish (or Scandinavian) influence, there are a number of phrases in the dialects of the North East of England, that, when spoken, would be totally understood by a Dane, but totally lost on a person from, say, the South East of England! I found this out when I decided to learn a little Danish during business trips to Denmark!
And then, of course, there is the problem of explaining, to 'foreigners', the game of cricket.........!
 
Alright thanks guys... I think I get it now. So basically Wales and Scotland are part of the UK, but are not English per se.

So Wales and Scotland are part of the UK, but act independantly from England? I'm sorry to keep asking questions but I kinda want to understand this.

You're getting it, but define 'independantly' neither Wales nor Scotland are able to raise taxes independant of the British Parliament. But they are able to decide how the money they are granted by the Government is spent - on e.g. Education and Hospitals.

To reiterate: we do not have an English Prime Minister, Tony Blair was, and Gordon Brown is (for the moment) the British Prime Minister
 
Ok I got ya... So it is sort of like the different states in the US.
Thanks for clearing that up guys, now i get it :D many thanks

And then, of course, there is the problem of explaining, to 'foreigners', the game of cricket.........!
I actually think I have a slight understanding of cricket :lol:
 
SOD stitich, very nearly correct, except the original inhabitants were the Britons, not British.

Old Woman: "Britons? Who are the Britons?"

King Arthur: "We all are. And I am your king."

Old Woman: "Well, I didn't vote for you".

King Arthur: "You don't vote for kings."

Old Woman: "Well, how did you get to be king then?"

The last survivors of these peoples, and therefore probably the true heirs to these islands (our 'redskins' if you like) are the Welsh, Ironically 'Welsh' means 'foreigners' in old English. The area of England where I live was also right on the border between the Anglo Saxon kingdoms and the Danelaw, many words in our common language today are Danish. If you have any interest in this whatsoever (the evolution of of our Language from prehistory to today) I recomment Melvyn Braggs 'The Adventure of English' as a damn good read. Not that it has anything to do with aeroplanes.

I am very interested in British (notice I didn't say "English"!) history; I and my wife are something of Anglophiles, even though we've only managed to get to Britain once (on our way to Norway). I also notice that a lot of the place-names in the north and west of England are Scandinavian in origin, indicating the former inhabitants (or, at least, the ones that took over) were of Scandinavian origin. If I am not mistaken, I believe that, at one time, York was the second-largest city in England in the early Middle Ages, during the reign of Harold Godwinson.
 
You quoted one of my all time favourite films, bless you! Yes, you are correct and if you ever get get the chance to visit York (derived from the scandinavian Jorvik) grab it, you wont be disappointed.
 
Since the entire Kingdom of Great Britain is about a third the size of Texas, it is easy to see why Americans tend to assign the name of "England" to Great Britain, since it is the most important country of Great Britain, very similar to going to "America" is synonymous with going to the "United States". The rest of Great Britain, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales, is really very minor when you consider that, in the US, the geopolitical study of the Kingdom of Great Britain is part of the geopolitical study of the world. I am sure that the same is true in "England", where, I'll bet, the geopolitical study of the US is included in the geopolitical study of the world. The world is a big place, and Europe must compete with Asia, Africa, Australia, and South America. It does successfully do so (who knows anything about South America, Africa, or Asia?) since much of American history is bound up with European influence and immigration (which is changing). We do not put in a year studying the geopolitics of Kingdom of Great Britain any more than I surmise students in the Kingdom (English students?) study the geopolitics of the US for a year.

I have seen several complaints about the lack of knowledge of Europe by Americans. I suspect that the average American student is taught as much about Europe as Europeans are taught about America, which is probably diddly-squat. Europeans do have an advantage in American culture due to TV, movies, and news, the validity of which is highly doubtful.

So, sorry for calling all of Great Britain England, but we Southerners have had to put up with being called Yankees (actually the proper term is "damn Yankee":lol: ) for a long time, we got over it.
 
Thanks for the info gentleman. Very interesting posts. It really helps me understand more how things are arranged across the pond!
 
We Dutch call the British "Engels", too, so it's not just a US habit :lol:

(actually the proper term is "damn Yankee":lol: )

Actually, this is "Damn Yankee" ;)
 

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Nice pic Marcel. (BTW, I haven't forgotten the book I promised, it'll be sent very soon!)
Some very good points here guys. I'm not sure about the school system in the UK now, but in my time (quite a long time ago!), I remember having to study 'North America', it's geography, geology, main products, peoples, etc, for the GCE 'O' Level examinations (age 16), in the Geography class, That was over the period of about a year. I was more than p****d off when the exam came around, and the subject was Europe! (ie, not the UK !).
Waynos is quite right, and I fully support his suggestion; ANYONE who visits Britain, should go to York, in North Yorkshire. 'Jorvik' was the original name of this beautiful, historic city, before the Romans invaded, and was named by the Vikings, as their Capital of Britain. Yes, there are many place names that reflect the Viking period. For instance, any town or place name ending in 'by', such as Irby, Bellerby etc. The 'by', pronounced 'bew' in Danish, means crossing place, and/ or crossing roads, and has remained in town names as the town would have originally been a meeting point, for example a place to cross a river, or where tracks eventually met, and crossed, and this led to a village , which would then grow.
One final snippet of information regarding the Viking influence on the language, already mentioned in the previous posts. The word 'Ta', pronounced 'Tah' is used, predominantly in the North of England, as a shortened form, 'slang' really, for 'thank you', or 'thanks', and is derived from the Scandinavian, 'Tak', which, of course, means the same.
It's good to know that a question on this forum can lead to such a diverse thread, where people from both sides of the 'pond' (and elsewhere), can learn at least a little something!
Terry.
 
Yes and of the four major English speaking groups that first settled in America, three were from England, the Puritans, the Royalists and the Quakers. The last and most numerous,arriving between 1700 and 1775, without which there may not have been the American Revolution, were the Borderers, mostly from Scotland and Ireland. Most of my ancestors were Borderers although a few were Royalists, arriving around 1640.
 
Airframes, the book I mentioned a few posts ago is brilliant in that respect and I wish it had been written when I was at school. Then I could have come back at my snobby teacher who didn't like us Yorkies talking in 'slang', when in fact words like 'Ta' and many others are, in fact, the last remnants of our own indegenous dialect and to be cherished, and not just laziness at all!

I'd have loved to see the look on his face if I'd been able to come back with that :)
 
You quoted one of my all time favourite films, bless you! Yes, you are correct and if you ever get get the chance to visit York (derived from the scandinavian Jorvik) grab it, you wont be disappointed.

My oldest son and I quote Monty Python quite often, especially THG, which drives my wife batty; I've got him hooked on the original BBC TV series now (we have the complete collection on DVD; sometimes modern technology is good!). I'm afraid I paraphrased the above quote, I didn't want to waste everybody's time!

And, some day, when the wifey and I are able to get the rugrats out of the house, we plan on spending quite a bit of time in England (or should I say "Britain"?).
 
That's good to hear SoD'. You'll be made most welcome and, if or when you do come here, let me know, and I'll try to meet up with you all.
Waynos, that would have been brilliant! Are you in York, or the surrounding area? I'm originally from Co. Durham, but my brother lives not far from York itself, and, if it gets published, my novel revolves around a terrorist plot centred on York. Hope to get up there in the spring, to go to Elvington museum.
Terry.
 
Yes and of the four major English speaking groups that first settled in America, three were from England, the Puritans, the Royalists and the Quakers. The last and most numerous,arriving between 1700 and 1775, without which there may not have been the American Revolution, were the Borderers, mostly from Scotland and Ireland. Most of my ancestors were Borderers although a few were Royalists, arriving around 1640.

Strictly speaking King James commissioned the Virginia Company which was first English (successful - more or less) venture into Amaerica, and settled Jamestown in 1607. Later absorbed into Crown as a colony in 1624 so where would we place them in the above description?
 

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