US guarantees Taiwan security. Now what?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Sigh…

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yes we all know that is presently the case - so why do try to keep making a point out of it?

You did ask me what my point was, so out of courtesy I repeated it for you. If you don't want me to repeat myself, stop asking me to repeat myself. It's that easy.

Everytime the USA is sending a high ranking politician to Taiwan - it belongs to China, so no outsider politician has a right to even go there (not even to mention spreading support towards segregation) - other then invited by Beijing. Look at the USA or Australia's reaction towards the e.g. China's Confucius institutes in those countries.

I don't think the Taiwanese think their island belongs to China. You're assuming the Beijing premise of the point, rather than considering how the Taiwanese feel about their own circumstances.

You really that naive? or you just want to play games? for my part I am not interested in such games.

If you think I'm that naive, perhaps you should try to educate me.

That is because you don't want to see it. - e.g. the USA declaring military action and support towards a separatist movement in another country.
In other words - Taipei go for independence if China attacks you we will come in. That is not just inciting a war, that is actually asking for one.

I don't agree. We're not telling Taipei to go for independence.

So the USA sending military aircraft and spy-planes into other countries airspace is different? China is not allowed to have an amphibious force to protect their outlying territories?
China's expansion into the South-China-Sea? - it is the result of colonial policies conducted by foreign powers in the last 400 years.

Firstly, they're not only building islands, they're doing so and then declaring a 200-mile national boundary around them. Not sure why you'd overlook that point. Secondly, they haven't been building islands for four centuries, so that too is nugatory.

As far as what they're "allowed" to have, they're obviously allowed to have anything they want and can build. But other nations are equally allowed to judge the nature and intent of those weapons systems/policies and draw conclusions.

Silly statement - no one is willing to die for freedom other then a minority of fanatics and politician talking and inciting bullocks.
But I do understand your mindset - which would include that you will go with the Palestinian self-determination and fight against Israel and their prime supporter USA

I don't have a dog in that fight, so no, you've guessed wrong.

You don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between HK (a former colony-obtained via open threat of force) being returned to China and Taiwan being an existing province of China with it's own elected democracy, administration and security forces.

lol, you'd better ask the Taiwanese. Their opinion matters more than yours so far as I'm concerned.

 

[Shinpachi]

Taipei still holds 90% precious treasure of the forbidden city as R.O.C - the proper successor of Qin dynasty.
This guarantees Taiwan's security.

National Palace Museum in Taipei

Source: 国立故宮博物院 - Wikipedia

 

[Jagdflieger]

Taipei still holds 90% precious treasure of the forbidden city as R.O.C - the proper successor of Qin dynasty.
This guarantees Taiwan's security.

National Palace Museum in Taipei
View attachment 671401
Source: 国立故宮博物院 - Wikipedia

Since there was never a public general election conducted by the people throughout China, the ROC wasn't "proper" at all.

Maybe you should read up onto the Hubei provincial assembly to proclaim the establishment of the Chinese republic in 1911 and the ongoing issues including the April 12th Incident of 1927.
On Oct. 25, 1971, the United Nations General Assembly voted to admit the People's Republic of China (mainland China) and to expel the Republic of China (Taiwan). The Communist P.R.C. therefore assumed the R.O.C.'s place in the General Assembly as well as its place as one of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council.

Therefore the PRC is undoubtedly a UN recognized state.
Has the UN recognized Taiwan as an independent state? - NO

And how some artifacts are supposed to guarantee Taiwan's security - maybe you want to elaborate more onto this?

 

[ThomasP]

Hey Jagdflieger,

Does not your argument above mean that the Dontsk/Dombass/Luhansk and Crimea still belong to Ukraine? ie:

There was never a Ukraine wide general election that agreed these areas are independent?

The UN has not recognized them as independent?

Hence Russia is acting illegally in those areas? (I think we can ignore the current invasion of (all?) Ukraine for this part of the discussion.)

 

[ThomasP]

accidental post

 

[Shinpachi]

Since there was never a public general election conducted by the people throughout China, the ROC wasn't "proper" at all.

Maybe you should read up onto the Hubei provincial assembly to proclaim the establishment of the Chinese republic in 1911 and the ongoing issues including the April 12th Incident of 1927.
On Oct. 25, 1971, the United Nations General Assembly voted to admit the People's Republic of China (mainland China) and to expel the Republic of China (Taiwan). The Communist P.R.C. therefore assumed the R.O.C.'s place in the General Assembly as well as its place as one of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council.

Therefore the PRC is undoubtedly a UN recognized state.
Has the UN recognized Taiwan as an independent state? - NO

And how some artifacts are supposed to guarantee Taiwan's security - maybe you want to elaborate more onto this?

Interesting perspective, jagdflieger. Were Chinese dynasties in the history decided by election? General election is a western idea introduced to Asia in the 19th century but it is not almighty in Asia yet. Even in such a stituation, PRC is a proper successor of ROC, not the Qin dynasty.
ROC is merely a ghost in the international society as it still exists.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Interesting perspective, jagdflieger. Were Chinese dynasties in the history decided by election? General election is a western idea introduced to Asia in the 19th century but it is not almighty in Asia yet. Even in such a stituation, PRC is a proper successor of ROC, not the Qin dynasty.
ROC is merely a ghost in the international society as it still exists.

It depends onto ones interpretation of the term "proper", and from 1927 until 1948 (The Kuomintang (KMT), ruled China from 1927 to 1948 before it moved to the island of Taiwan) there was never a general public election. (which would be the 20th century) however you are certainly correct that the ROC in 1912 was the legal successor of the Qing Dynasty and as such also internationally recognized.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Hey Jagdflieger,

Does not your argument above mean that the Dontsk/Dombass/Luhansk and Crimea still belong to Ukraine? ie:

Upon the dissolution of the Soviet-union, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia signed the Alma-Ata Deceleration - forming the Commonwealth aka CIS.
Main issue was the neutrality among each other and a joint military command - the rest I had already written.

Therefore Jelzin did not object towards the boundaries of the Ukraine (that were entirely based onto Soviet design and incl. the "present/gift" Crimea
And as such the UN also recognized Ukraine as a sovereign state with the borders of the former Soviet Republic of Ukraine. I am too lazy now to recheck, but IIRC the Soviet Republic of Ukraine was already a UN member state in the 50'ies.

Ukraine broke the Alma-Ata agreement by including into it's foreign policy statement the political aim to join NATO - a breach towards neutrality.
Russia claims that Kiew suppressed the Russian speaking population of Donbass etc. in parallel Russian/Ukrainian separatists declared those provinces as independent republics which was supported by Putin but rejected by Ukraine and the UN. Due to Ukraine's breach of the Alma-Alta-Declaration Putin forwarded that the Crimea which was given as a gift did not constitute an original part of the Soviet Republic Ukraine and therefore decided to occupy/reclaim it in 2014.
Then Ukraine Armed Forces and separatist Militias started murdering and killing each other - giving Putin a reason to send in Russian troops.

I would think that the rest is known....

 

[soulezoo]

This leak, probably.

Alarming Footage, Leaked Audio Exposes China's 'Ground Strike Plan' To Attack & Gobble Taiwan - Watch

China has recently published alarming footage of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) landing operation drills, increasing speculations that President Xi Jinping is prepping his military to annex Taiwan. The ‘Big Battle’ Of Howitzers: Russia Says Its Giatsint-S Heavy Artillery Gun Is ‘Wiping...

eurasiantimes.com

Explosive audio leak details China’s plan to invade Taiwan - Indianarrative

<p> An unprecedented and explosive audio leak of a top-secret meeting of the People’s Liberation Army has revealed China’s detailed plan to attack Taiwan.</p> <p> Experts say that the audio clip posted on the YouTube channel of Lude media appears authentic. This will be the first time since the...

www.indianarrative.com

Can be intentional, as Shinpachi suggested.
"Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak." (Sun Tzu).

Yes, this leak is what I was referring to earlier. I saw it in a couple of other sources, but those two seem to be the same.

 

[Shinpachi]

Taipei Times dated June 3.

"RIMPAC SNUB: Taiwan was left out of the joint military drills to be held at the end of this month, despite the US having said that an invitation could bolster US security strategy"

Tsai inspects Taoyuan troops, weapons - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

 

[Shinpachi]

Taiwan boy discloses PLA base map for Google Earth which covers 1,354 bases.

Source: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...Tq&ll=26.52538401071175,106.0123712143118&z=4

 

[Dimlee]

"The Implications of the Russia-Ukraine War for Taiwan."

 

[SaparotRob]

Frighteningly informative.

 

[ThomasP]

Taiwan agreed (in mid-March) to a delay in armament deliveries from the US so that some materiel could be diverted to Ukraine.

 

[Dimlee]

I would not be surprised if Taipei Representative Office appears in Ukraine. Actually, I'd welcome that.

 

[Admiral Beez]

U.S. Officials Grow More Concerned About Potential Action by China on Taiwan
U.S. Officials Grow More Concerned About Potential Action by China on Taiwan

 

[Shinpachi]

Taiwan has been blocked by PLA vessels as Pelosi's keepsake.

"U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan has caused dissatisfaction in China. In response, the CCP conducted military exercises in 6 waters around Taiwan from August 4 to 7, which is estimated to affect 18 air routes around the world passing through the Taipei FIR....."

Source: ETtoday Taiwan

快訊／解放軍軍演倒數　國防部、外交部官網癱瘓原因曝 | ETtoday政治新聞 | ETtoday新聞雲

中共解放軍邊宣布要在8月4日12點到7日12點，將在台灣島周邊進行重要軍事演訓行動。沒想到，國防部、外交部的官方網站於3日深夜驚傳被駭癱瘓，完全無法連線進入，截至4日凌晨0時15分仍處於癱瘓狀態。至於是不是被駭客攻擊？國防部稍早表示，正在查修具體故障原因。

www.ettoday.net

 

[SaparotRob]

That's rather disturbing.

 

[Shinpachi]

This will be a slow but big earthquake in Asia because Chinese action was/is always slow.
Too late to be back now anyway.