USA and DDR penetration about D25T gun

[Marcel]

double

 

[Vincenzo]

the use of POW in working it's not, generally, slave labour, also my grandfather was pow (world war I) and worked in bayern plates factory. we need specific info for know.

 

[Juha]

Hello Vinzenco
I gave one source, according to it the 600.000 Italian PoWs in Germany were clearly forced labour and badly treated. Alejandro gave a net source, which also gives some info on the conditions they lived in. The some 200.000 Italian civilian workers in Germany had much better conditions.

Juha

 

[renrich]

I actually saw Italian POWs being used as laborers near the end of WW2 at Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas. They were maintaining the landscaping at the post and being guarded by MPs. Don't know if they were slave laborers on not but they seemed relatively content and very well fed. LOL

 

[alejandro_]

And..?

Simply that a tank with lower HP/weight ratio will tend to have a lower mobility.

It was also painted with much more vivid colours than say, American or Soviet tanks. The French ones may be an exceptions from that, I heard they really liked vivid colours too, though the pattern was different.

I wonder how painting the tank in different colors will affect its mechanical performance...

 

[Kurfürst]

Simply that a tank with lower HP/weight ratio will tend to have a lower mobility.

I see, than logically it can mean only two things:

a, The Tiger II had equal or higher HP/weight ratio compared to other tanks, since its mobility characteristics were equal or higher than other tanks..

b, It is not as simple... there's a lot between the engine and the terrain - for example transmission (ever wondered why Tigers had 8+4 gears in total?), running gear and the tracks themselves...

I wonder how painting the tank in different colors will affect its mechanical performance...

And I wonder how power to weight figure all alone would give a guide about the mobility of a big tracked vehicle like a tank. Simply I was being sarcastic.

 

[thrawn]

alejandro,

for clarification, can you please post your definition of mobility?
i.e. what charateristics are a must-have for tank to rate it mobile in your opinion?

regards

thrawn

 

[alejandro_]

a, The Tiger II had equal or higher HP/weight ratio compared to other tanks, since its mobility characteristics were equal or higher than other tanks..

Can you name a few apart from Churchill?

b, It is not as simple... there's a lot between the engine and the terrain - for example transmission (ever wondered why Tigers had 8+4 gears in total?), running gear and the tracks themselves...

Did you read some of the excerpts I posted? tracks gave trouble. The General Inspector of the Panzertruppen asked for more powerful and more "healthy" engines i.e HL 234, cooling was also insufficient...

Is there any mechanical system in Tiger-II which was outstanding enough to make up for all this?

for clarification, can you please post your definition of mobility?
i.e. what charateristics are a must-have for tank to rate it mobile in your opinion?

This probably covers a whole topic:

- Power to weight ratio.
- Fuel consumption/range.
- Cruising speed.
- Pressure over ground.
- Turning radius/Slope limits.
- Transmission -how effective, ease of drive-.

- Maintenance requirements - MTBF if it can be used in this context.
I would also consider weight and size from an strategic point of view. Tanks are often transported in trains, have to cross bridges. Tiger needed special wagons and was equipped with 2 sets of tracks.

5.Movement. As much as possible allow the Tigers to move alone.
Reason: The stress on the automotive parts of the Tiger are least when it is given the opportunity to drive quickly without changing gears, braking and restarting. The Tiger also disturbs the movement of other units. Bottlenecks, bridges and fords often present surprises for the Tigers through which traffic can become completely blocked.
7.
Do not request forced marches. Reason: The result will be high wear on the engine, transmission and running gear. The Tiger's combat capability will thus be used up on the road and not in action. The average speed for a Tiger unit is ten kilometers per hour by day and seven kilometers per hour by night.
8.
Have tanks travel as little as possible. Reason: During movements

"Swinging the Sledgehammer: The Combat Effectiveness of German Heavy Tank Battalions in World War II" by Christopher W. Wilbeck

 

[Vincenzo]

i've take some info on italian "pow" (they were not considerd pow from germans authority, and theorically were classified free workers in early '44, w/o change in they actual situation) and after this we can agree that can be called slave labour ( in the common sense, also if this words are not technical exact). so now need know if italian "pow" were surely used in tigers factories

 

[Njaco]

Didn't know this was a PzKpfw VI thread.

 

[thrawn]

- Power to weight ratio.

This is not a real characteristic of mobility. If so, a stationary power generator would be highly mobile.

- Fuel consumption/range.

Agreed.

- Cruising speed.

Agreed.

- Pressure over ground.

This alone is also no real attribute of mobility, but the result is. namely good cross-country ability.

- Turning radius/Slope limits.

Agreed.

- Transmission -how effective, ease of drive-.
- Maintenance requirements - MTBF if it can be used in this context.
I would also consider weight and size from an strategic point of view.

Yes, for the most part i agree.

To sum it up, the ideal mobile tank can go nearly everywhere in the smallest possible amount of time. Would you agee to this?

regards

thrawn

 

[dunmunro1]

This is not a real characteristic of mobility. If so, a stationary power generator would be highly mobile.

Right, so if we put a kubelwagon engine in a Tiger, it's mobility will remain the same? Power to weight ratio is a critical component of mobility, and it is completely ridiculous to claim otherwise. The Tiger has a 8 speed transmission because it is underpowered and the increased number of gears reflects a smaller usable power band.

 

[thrawn]

Right, so if we put a kubelwagon engine in a Tiger, it's mobility will remain the same? Power to weight ratio is a critical component of mobility, and it is completely ridiculous to claim otherwise. The Tiger has a 8 speed transmission because it is underpowered and the increased number of gears reflects a smaller usable power band.

Maybe i didn't made my point clear enough.
I want a definition of mobility. What are the characteristics of mobility? i.e. what must a tank could do, to be mobile.

If we have these characteristics, we can determine how these can be technically achieved (power to weight, torque, ground pressure, etc.).And now we can look at the specification of each tank to judge its mobility.

regards

thrawn