Sure?
Remember BoB (Battle of Britain):
RAF only shoot down 65% of their claims
OKL shoot down only 30% of their claims
Who's the liar?.
You are, cause that right there is a lie
Don't believe the german propaganda also, where is the documents which proves that 352 kills, just when the Germans lost the iniciative.
But 1 more thing, how many of you read that article?
I've read it, and its pure bull**** (Excuse me).
But you obviously didnt read the article I presented you, wich proves just how big a liar Khazanov is, and how worthless his article on this subject is !
Here, I present you it again, now read it very carefully:
http://members.aol.com/falkeeins/Sturmgruppen/hartmannclaims.html
See... He cant even get the numbers right !
Shadar_Logoth said:
Historical Archives are open (paying) in Germany and Russia, in Russia since 1992, many writers and studients could see that files. I'm not talking about military secrets, only historical files.
Russian loss records are not open to the public, period. And even if they were they werent worth anything, as the Russians didnt bother writing losses up in any detailed way, wich is why their loss archives are notoriously inaccurate.
The USA made a great effort in defeating germany, but soviets made THE BIGGEST EFFORT.
The Russians no doubt lost more men than any other country in the war, meaning it cost them the most in men and material as a single country, but, the combined casualties of the W-Allies and damage inflicted on Germany by them, more than makes up for that.
I repeat again, Germany lost the 70% of his military and economic power in the east front, germany produced more planes than never in 1944 (and tanks also)... see the data about DDAY and battles in East Front like Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk, Kiev, Leningrad or the Balatton offensive.
Let me put it like this: That data is "WRONG", and your also forgetting so many things i don't even bother mentioning them as it would take ages.
Lean and leasing from USA was the 4% of the soviet production, it's an important help (which was paid, of course), but is not so important to say that without USA germany would have won the war.
Again your totally forgetting the German point of view ! If the Germans were only fighting the Soviets wich only had Britain as help, the Soviets wouldn't stand a chance !
Think about it, if the U.S. werent involved the Germans were free of daily mass bombing raids, and two BIG fronts ! More than enough to secure a sure victory in the east without doubt !
Imagine Germany with 7 million soldiers more (casualties in East Front) with all the equipment lost in the East, do you think that DDAY would have been the same?
7 million soldiers !!!
You really dont know your numbers !
Here's the facts:
During WW2 German casualties were:
3.25 million Soldiers dead.(75-80% Eastern front) / 2.44 million Civilian dead. Total= 5.29 million. (
Even the Total number isnt even close to your highly exaggerated number !)
Russian casualties:
12-13 million Soldiers dead. / 17 million civilian dead. Total= 29-30 million.
W-Allied casualties:
1.67 million Soldiers dead. / 6.44 milllion civilian dead. Total= 7.11 million.
Now may I ask, where did you get those outrages loss figures of yours ?
In any case you might as well stop it Shadar, cause your so horribly wrong about this subject !
---------------------------------------------
Let me remind you of some facts, now you may ignore them (I dont care), but now I showed you them and there's no disputing them now:
During WW2 the Germans had the most accurate and most strict confirmation system in the world.
The Russians had a confirmation system which was one of the very worst in the world, being only equaled by the Japanese system !
Now think about this.