Were people on the ground ever killed by bullet casings?

[GrauGeist]

A spent casing would be ejected during flight, the average speed of which was at least 300 mph, if that would add to the equation...

 

[Flyboy2]

It would only add if it was shot from an angle and therefore had a horizontal component to the velocity, it would change the acceleration so it wouldn't be 9.8

 

[Marcel]

It would only add if it was shot from an angle and therefore had a horizontal component to the velocity, it would change the acceleration so it wouldn't be 9.8

Nope, the acceleration would always be 9.8 m/s^2. The speed with which it was travelling when ejected adds nothing to the end-speed. Also the angle doesn't matter as it will always slow down or speed up to end-speed. You can see V(0) is not included in the formula I provided.

 

[FlexiBull]

Fire a rifle horizontally, and if the cartridge is ejected out the side with whatever velocity the cartridge case hits the ground the same time as the bullet does.

If the cartridge did have a downward velocity all that would mean is that it would alter the time for it to reach terminal velocity but the terminal velocity would end up the same.

 

[Watanbe]

I have pics of the aircraft taken with a Yashika 35mm camera buried in my archives. I'll see if I can collect them and get them changed to digital. Yes, it was a trip into the past. I also found bits of the planes everywhere - direct hits by B-29s from Saipan that pasted the island every other day at 1100 and 1500 hours - including pitot tubes and such. I got various data plates as well. One was from a Zero tail wheel and another from a Betty engine gearbox cover. The tail wheel plate was brass but the others were aluminum. Most were from various components off the Zero engines. The aircraft data plates were typically painted onto the port aft empennage of the Japanese planes and all of them were weathered off over the 30-odd years when I saw them. All the plexi was gone from every plane as were the tires and other features the islanders found a use for. Just before I arrived a completely intact and undamaged Judy was found hidden amidst a think stand of bamboo with a 1000-lb bomb on a cart beneath it. Japanese officials came out and carefully removed it without disturbing the bomb and took it back to Japan for restoration to flying condition. A US Navy demolition team arrived, packed the bomb with plastique, buried it with dirt and then remotely exploded it. They did this several times during my 4 months there when UXBs were found - mostly American 250 and 500 pounders - and this did a lot of damage. A 20-lb bomb fragment from the Japanese bomb hit the tin roof of the hanger I worked in, burned through and landed on the floor where I had just previously had a Briton-Norman Islander parked. It was still hot when I arrived back at the hanger after the Navy's all clear was radioed to the evacuation town of Colonia. You had to wear some heavy boots when booney-stomping because of all the razor sharp bomb shrapnel littering the airfield surrounds. I counted 20 plus Zeros by doing that as they were mostly hidden in the jungle over-growth over the years. It was almost eery. I was 25 at the time and completely taken with it all. Anyway, I'll see about the pics.

I find this absolutely incredible I would really love to see some photos! Any other vivid descriptions you would like to share? I would love to take a walk back in time like that!

 

[Elvis]

Good calculations and an interesting value for terminal velocity,

But you can't have a force in anything other than Newtons (or the USA equivalent) it can't be in N.m

The sooner you guys go completely metric the better life is sooo much more easy in SI units

Newton-Metres is the metric equivelent of Foot-Pounds.
This is why any work expressed in Foot-Pounds, when converted to a metric reading, is expressed as Newton-Metres.


Elvis

 

[Flyboy2]

Right, right... my mistake thanks Marcel and FlexiBull

 

[schwarzpanzer]

I think a shell casing would enter a flat spin - reducing it's velocity even further?

I think the 'coin dropped from a skyscraper' thing was shattered on Mythbusters, IIRC?

Plus, an empty case would not be dense enouh to cause much damage?

I do wonder about the 75mm shells fired from a B-25 Mitchell though...

 

[jugggo]

Didnt they do a similar testing on the show Myth Busters about a penny falling from the from the top of a tall skyscrapper or something?

 

[schwarzpanzer]

Hi Jugggo,

Yes, that is the one I meant. I didn't know what coin (American).

 

[N4521U]

"Hey, look up there, a do fight".
"oh yeah, ouch! Sh*t, I'm blind"!
who cares how fast it is going, it could still "put your eye out"! just like your mom said!

 

[The Basket]

Mythbusters did a show with a penny from a tall building which was found to have only a stinging effect.

Certainly couldnt smash bone.

They also did one with a bullet falling to earth under gravity.

Again not enough velocity to cause serious injury.

 

[syscom3]

Mythbusters did a show with a penny from a tall building which was found to have only a stinging effect.

Certainly couldnt smash bone.

They also did one with a bullet falling to earth under gravity.

Again not enough velocity to cause serious injury.

Myth busters is wrong about the bullet.

A bullet coming down to earth is extremely dangerous and will kill (documented by the LAPD and LASD in the 80's and 90's). If it hits anything, its most probably the head, which doesn't take much to receive dangerous injury.

 

[timmo]

Just for the hell of it - my Wife was on a gun emplacement in the '40s - 109s straffed her ( then went on to bomb a school) - She's never forgiven herself for not collecting the rounds!!

= Tim

 

[Clay_Allison]

Myth busters is wrong about the bullet.

A bullet coming down to earth is extremely dangerous and will kill (documented by the LAPD and LASD in the 80's and 90's). If it hits anything, its most probably the head, which doesn't take much to receive dangerous injury.

You should have watched the episode, they pointed out that if the bullet is fired at ANY angle, it will arc and retain much of its initial speed, making it as deadly as a long range sniper shot. Only when a bullet is fired perfectly vertical will it spend its momentum and drop like a rock. They also pointed out that it's very uncomfortable to try to fire a rifle straight up and that most people firing into the air would actually be firing at a 50-75 degree angle, thus preserving the momentum of the bullet and putting people at serious risk of death and injury.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

We had some gang banger idiot convicted here about a year ago for firing a gun into the air and killing a woman sitting in her living room a few blocks away.

 

[Shortround6]

I think General Hatcher was involved in an experiment that involves shooting bullets straight up. I beleive it is mentioned in his book "Hatchers notebook". I will see if I can find it in the next few days.

 

[bobbysocks]

always cracked me up when you saw huge crowds of people over in the middle east unloading ak47 clips into the air in celebration or protest. they wont have the same velocity coming back down as they did out of the muzzle but they will still do some damage....

 

[mikewint]

Flyboy2 while your equation is correct it does not take into account the effects of air friction which is VERY significant. air friction is a very difficult thing to deal with since it depends on so very many factors, temperature, air density, humidity, wind, etc. PLUS the cross-sectional area of the object and depends on the cube of the velocity. ENIAC was designed to compute artillery shell ranges. thus it is always approximated and determined by real world testing. any lateral velocity would quickly be eaten up by friction with the casing falling straight down. for a laterally fired bullet air friction reduces the range by around 90%. artillery shells are fired above 45 degrees to reach their maximum range. the increased angle gets them quickly into the upper atmosphere where density is less.
so unless it "hits you in the eye kid" there is not enough KE to kill anyone

 

[mikewint]

Elvis, both torque and work are Force times distance. in torque the force is applied tangentially and movement is circular thus the unit is distance - force or meter - newton or foot - pound. in work the displacement of the object must be in the direction of the force thus the work unit is force - distance or newton - meter which is a joule or pound - feet.