What of the Me 410?

[Erich]

loaded or unloaded ? ..... for comparisons on the Bf 110. arms changed as well with different cannon fits in the G-2 version and then you have the G-4 Nachtjäger with again more fits this time radar developments. In any case it might be a point though moot how terrible the Night fighter version was on tackling the US heavy bombers in the winter of 43-44 with radar aerials and in some cases with additions of the twin Br 21cm mortars under each wing, such as in NJG 5

E ~

 

[Breizh]

Does anyone have more info on the 8x MG151/20 configuration, and how many Me410s used it?
How commonly were MK103s used ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lucky13]

Luftwaffe had 72 Aces flying twins. How many of them flew the 410? Great thread by the way!

 

[CharlesBronson]

Does anyone have more info on the 8x MG151/20 configuration, and how many Me410s used it?
How commonly were MK103s used ?

Thanks in advance.

8 x MG 151 goes like that:

2 in nose (internal)

4 in bomb bay

2 in unberbelly pod.

The MK 103 was used in pairs in the bomb bay, usually aimed by a ZFr 4 scope gunsight.

 

[FalkeEins]

..this should answer a lot of the questions - or at least provide some clues - to some of the points raised in this thread...due in the next month or two from Classic/Chevron - I have one or two small pieces in the book, pilot bios and other general text input....

Classic/Chevron were great people to work for too, unlike some outfits I could mention...

 

[Udet]

Falke, hello.

Interesting book. Do the parts you already read covered any opinions of the pilots who flew the Me 410 regarding combat with USAAF fighters?

 

[Erich]

Neil is this an English publication or ?

as to 8 2cm weapons they were all housed in the nose. 4 directly front over the top of one another and 4 in a row in the lower portion of the nose with the bay hinged downward for access.

 

[Udet]

Lucky so far i can only tell about Major Eduard Tratt, whose victories over three P-38s flying his Me 410 were discussed here.

I was forgetting Fritz Stehle, who converted to jet fighter pilot (Me 262) and also attained the "ace" category flying the jet.

 

[Erich]

Fritz Stehle is still a mystery but one of the top destroyer pilots, his accts are covered in haphazard style in a couple of books. I believe that Fritz was also an ace first with the Bf 110G-2 into the Me 410 which he was more successful with while in II./ZG 26. he may still be alive, my German contacts lost track of him years ago.

 

[drgondog]

Me 410 in combat


13 May 1944 , One of the most disastrous missions for II./ZG76 was when they was jumped by 20 P-51s and 12 a/c were written of, many aircrews was lost and the US bomber force flew on unhindered to Poznan. Obefelwebel Wolfgang Martin rammed a B-17 with his damaged Me 410 after ordering his crew to bale out.

The 354FS of the 355th sent two flights to attack a gaggle of 28-20+ Me410s from Landsberg shooting down 4 and then another encounter in E. Berlin area for a total of 6-0-1 with no losses, plus 2 Fw 190s, one Hs129 and a Ju 88. The 355th was primary Target Escort force for 8th AF task force bombing Posnan.

The 357th FG also got into them at Grunberg and Hamburg

20 June, 1944. The 354 and 357FS of 355th each met 30-40+ Me 410s and top cover Me-109s, in two separate engagements from Pomeranian Bay through Rugen, Bergen and Stettin shooting down 4-2-1 Me 410s and 8-1-0 Me109s for no losses

7 July, 1944. The 354FS and 357FS of 355th each met two large forces comprised of Me 410s and top cover Me 109s in a battle from Halle to Clingen to Nordhausen area shooting down 12-0-3 Me 410s plus 3 Me 109s. One loss to Me 410 debris after it blew up.

The 355th experience may not be completely average with respect to Mustangs versus Me 410s but the three times they met in the air, the awards were 22-2-5 Me 410s for one loss in mid air collision.




http://www.ww2.web64.dk/fly/images/ger/images/me410.jpg

Cheers
GT

I would also have to hold as a question mark a 355th loss on 28 May, 1944 near Zerbst. A ZG26 pilot, Uffr Stryzak claimed a Mustang in Zerbst area but don't know if he was flying a Me 410 for sure?

I honestly don't know how well a Me 410 Should compete, given an equal quality pilot, but know it did not fare well against any USAAF Fighter percentage wise.

 

[Erich]

Bill I think you have the info already but the website by GT for 7-7-44 is quite incorrect on the Me 410 losses, I have all of ZG 26 and 76 losses. 28 May 44 ZG 26 I. and II. gruppe were both flying the Me 410A/B. Only III./ZG 26 stayed with the Bf 110G-2 till disbandment

13 May 1944 II./ZG 76 lost no a/c that date. Big error ! it was II./ZG 26 which lost 7 Me 410A-1's in combat. 4th staffel lost 1 and 6th staffel lost 6. Like I said I have the losses confirmed ! martin of 4./ZG 26 was killed as well as his R/O Schann over Burschen coded 3U+LM.

20 June 1944 II./ZG 26 lost 11 Me 410A's and B's.

21 June 44 was even worse

 

[Udet]

Erich, yes. I have also been told Oberstleutnant Stehle is the type of veteran which has refused to speak about the war; we might never know his reasons for sure.

It is most likely Stehle has drawn attention for several reasons: he flew almost from the beginning of the war, until the very end...more than 5 years of combat service is a record that deserves all respect and honors; chances are the very last air-to-air kill of the Luftwaffe belongs in his personal score; also he is a jet ace, something that will of course attract historians and researchers, but just like Stehle, how many other thousands of German veterans, many that already passed away plus many more that might still be out there, will simply not talk about the war...we could not tell.

 

[drgondog]

Bill I think you have the info already but the website by GT for 7-7-44 is quite incorrect on the Me 410 losses, I have all of ZG 26 and 76 losses. 28 May 44 ZG 26 I. and II. gruppe were both flying the Me 410A/B. Only III./ZG 26 stayed with the Bf 110G-2 till disbandment

13 May 1944 II./ZG 76 lost no a/c that date. Big error ! it was II./ZG 26 which lost 7 Me 410A-1's in combat. 4th staffel lost 1 and 6th staffel lost 6. Like I said I have the losses confirmed ! martin of 4./ZG 26 was killed as well as his R/O Schann over Burschen coded 3U+LM.

20 June 1944 II./ZG 26 lost 11 Me 410A's and B's.

21 June 44 was even worse

Erich - any details surrounding Stryzak's award? Christensen and Barger broke into a diving covey of 109s flying high cover. Barger heard to say he is OK, Christensen buried where he crashed at Zerbst rifle range and ZG26 only score that is reasonably close to Cristensen crash site- about 40 miles from bounce location.

Roger on the info from 12och..

sometimes I wonder on the completeness of current records of summer 1944. I still haven't found a matching loss for dad's 109 that he chased into the ground near Mulhausen on 28 July - after a B-24 blew up one of them.. that is two losses that never showed up - and is confirmed by gun camera film, including crash debris, and his wingman?

 

[Erich]

Udet -yes I must agree with sadness, as it would give us all a true reality check

Bill let me check references/data

 

[CharlesBronson]

Lucky so far i can only tell about Major Eduard Tratt, whose victories over three P-38s flying his Me 410 were discussed here.

E. Tratt claimed five P-38 destroyed.

as to 8 2cm weapons they were all housed in the nose. 4 directly front over the top of one another and 4 in a row in the lower portion of the nose with the bay hinged downward for access

Ok, thanks.

 

[Erich]

CB I wonder if Tratt even got 3 P-38's personally........... not to discount but that is a rarity indeed in a twin engine, maybe a S/E but

yes Bill nothing is concrete with LW losses or claims/kills, too much lost. some records are even buried and gone forever. Woods claims listing is something but I would not rule out inaccuracies as to times and pilots and locations.

 

[drgondog]

CB I wonder if Tratt even got 3 P-38's personally........... not to discount but that is a rarity indeed in a twin engine, maybe a S/E but

yes Bill nothing is concrete with LW losses or claims/kills, too much lost. some records are even buried and gone forever. Woods claims listing is something but I would not rule out inaccuracies as to times and pilots and locations.

Erich - of course the claims inaccuracies occurs in both sides - even the work that you and I did together highlights that. The example for my father was that he was one hour off on his encounter report - there were several examples of that in just the April 24 Mission

That is just one of the huge difficulties in pin pointing who downed whom on a particular day and place

 

[CharlesBronson]

CB I wonder if Tratt even got 3 P-38's personally........... not to discount but that is a rarity indeed in a twin engine, maybe a S/E but

Well, I am not saying that I have sureness, but that was the figure, he also claimed five hurricanes while flying the Bf-110.

 

[Erich]

I went back to the report by the 20th and they got jumped by Bf 109G's and this is what was the result, Tratts score is ridiculous, 4 P-38's on one mission hardly.

 

[Breizh]

as to 8 2cm weapons they were all housed in the nose. 4 directly front over the top of one another and 4 in a row in the lower portion of the nose with the bay hinged downward for access.

Hello Erich,

Can you post or PM me a reference for this configuration?

Thanks.