Which is better: P-47 or Fw-190?

[FLYBOYJ]

I would assume that's at SL

 

[DAVIDICUS]

Thanks Flyboy.

Let me ask for your input as you have some insight here. If we were to assume that the "M" model could climb at a rate of 3,500fpm at 5,000ft, what do you think the climb rate would be at sea level?

I know that we are just estimating or even guesstimating.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I would "guess" about 3800 fpm, 59F, 29.92" I know its supposed to reach 15,000 in 4.9 seconds, so that would average about right!

 

[Soren]

So we can all agree that the -47M wont reach 20,000ft in 4.75min now ?

 

[DAVIDICUS]

Interesting.

The 4.9 min figure you are using as a backdrop is, I assume, the data I presented from: http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9485/P-47M.html

Climb, at max. gross weight (including three 75 gallon drop tanks): 4.9 minutes to 15,000 feet at 2,600 rpm (1700 hp). Reportedly, the "M" could reach 20,000 feet in 5.7 minutes at military power (2,100 hp @ 2,800 rpm). 20,000 feet in 4.75 minutes in WEP (2,800 hp @ 2,800 rpm). This is with full internal fuel and ammo. No external stores or drop tanks. In other words, normal load, clean configuration.

That data has been the subject of the great debate (of epic proportions really ) between Soren and myself on this thread.

While we are on the subject, what do you think of the 4.75min to 20,000ft at WEP figure?

Does it appear plausible or does it strike you, as Soren would say, as "an insane number"?

 

[Soren]

20,000ft in 4.75min by a P-47 ! Lets keep logical here...

You've already seen the power and wing-loading stats

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I'd guess 20,000 by 5.5 min. Does anyone have a P-47M flight manual?

 

[DAVIDICUS]

Thanks for your insight.

I may have a line on some Republic Aviation performance specs for the "M" and "N" model and will know more later this week.

The flight manual for the "N" model, however, can be downloaded at:

http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/files/air-manuals/usaaf/

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Thanks David, I'm downloading it!

 

[Soren]

A sidenote: The P-47D-25 could reach 15,000 ft in 5 min 36 sec.

 

[DAVIDICUS]

The only interesting information I saw was:

Maximum continuous (Normal rated power) 2,600rpm @ 43.5"

Takeoff (military power) 2,800rpm @ 54"

War emergency power 2,800rpm @ 72"

The engine can be overspeeded to 3,120rpm for up to 30 seconds without damaging the engine.

Weight: empty - 10,998lbs. Useful load varies from 2,824 to 10,199.9lbs.

Wing Area: 322.2 sq. ft. giving a wing loading of approximately 43 lbs sq. ft. with normal gross weight 13,854lbs.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Again, thanks for the download David -

In the -47N POH it states the "C" model 2800 has larger cooling fin area than the B which tell me the cylinder heads are different. From what I could see right now there are no performance charts, although those may be listed in another TO. I'm gonna print this puppy and read through it!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Good download very interesting.

 

[Nonskimmer]

I too thank you for the link.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Where can you find more manuals online.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I went through the P-47N manual and there are no performance charts. This tells me that this data is either listed in another TO or you have calculate it using a performance calculator (it looks like a slide rule). This would be used when carrying a load (ordinance) to calculate climb, speed and fuel burn performance, especially important on hot days and when operating from high elevation airports.

In going back to those FAA documents I posted yesterday, I suspect that the data for the C17 engine is similar if not the same as the R-2800-57 based on the use of 100-130 fuel, which was the most common fuel used during the WW2 period.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

(it looks like a slide rule). This would be used when carrying a load (ordinance) to calculate climb, speed and fuel burn performance, especially important on hot days and when operating from high elevation airports.

Is it like the Whiz Wheels that we use today. You can calculate lots of things with it including fuel burn rate which really beats doing it out by hand on a piece of paper, epecially as you said on hot days like today was.

 

[mario29811]

Do you people know the story of Robert S. Johnson, the first ace in World War 2 to surpass Eddie Rickenbacker's score of 26 kills? On June 26, 1943 when he was on an escort mission for B-17s, a group of FW-190s jumped the group and poured 21 20 millimeter cannon shells into his plane, causing the engine to catch on fire and the P-47 to spin out of control. It left Johnson partially blinded and burnt (and an easy target). He leveled off the plane and tried to bail, but his canopy was jammed. He noticed that the fire was out, and he maintained a heading for home. Shortly after, German Ace Egon Meyer (flying in a FW-190) spotted the damaged P-47 and opened fire. The P-47 was built so robustly that Meyer exhausted all of his ammunition attempting to shoot it down. When Johnston landed the plane, he started to count all the bullet holes in his airplane. When he reached 200 without moving around the airplane he gave up. Clearly, the P-47 is able to defeat the FW-190.

 

[grampi]

Not to knock the P-47. She was a marvelous aircraft and to me one of the most underated allied aircraft (she is often overshadowed by the less capable P-51)

The less capable P-51? In what regard was the P-51 less capable?

 

[Clayton Magnet]

You are asking him to clarify an 11 year old comment?