syscom3
Pacific Historian
I dont see any reason for calling a newbie a "fu*knut" when he didnt say anything out of the ordinary.
Who started WW2?
- Thread starter Tiger
- Start date
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How long have you been here syscom, I'll call you a f*cknut for butting in like you always do. And yes, it was a stupid thing to make a comment about Germany getting blamed for starting World War I ... when we're talking about who started World War II.
I actually said something about Germany getting blaimed because it was something that helped in the Nazi cause for the start of WW2.
I know, but still you didn't say anything about Germany starting World War I. You just said they get blamed for it, which could have been left alone. In fact, to finish this discussion for both wars -
Serbia started World War I.
Germany started World War II.
Serbia started World War I.
Germany started World War II.
Exactly
syscom3
Pacific Historian
plan_D said:
Ive been here long enough to know to ignore it.
The newbies dont and had a right to get pissed off on it.
evangilder
"Shooter"
Alright, knock it off, guys.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
back on topic.
For the war in Asia, the Japanese see the issues differently.
They saw themselves as the natural colonial master of Asia (remember, after WW1, Germany lost all its territories in the Pacific, many of them to Japan). Their attitude was if the other European nations could conquor lands and colonize them, why cant an asia country do it too?
While they were very brutal about it, they saw their conduct under their own cultural rules.
NOTE - BEFORE ANYONE STARTS THROWING DARTS AT ME, IM REPORTING FACTS. IN NO WAY DO I APPROVE OF WHAT JAPAN DID!!!!!
For the war in Asia, the Japanese see the issues differently.
They saw themselves as the natural colonial master of Asia (remember, after WW1, Germany lost all its territories in the Pacific, many of them to Japan). Their attitude was if the other European nations could conquor lands and colonize them, why cant an asia country do it too?
While they were very brutal about it, they saw their conduct under their own cultural rules.
NOTE - BEFORE ANYONE STARTS THROWING DARTS AT ME, IM REPORTING FACTS. IN NO WAY DO I APPROVE OF WHAT JAPAN DID!!!!!
If anyone wants to read a recent book on the origins of WW1, try reading "Europe's Last Summer". Very good read. Puts out the theory that the Serbian/Austrian, relatively local conflict changed when Russia did a partial mobilization and Germany reponded to it by mobilizing. After that, Germany expected Austria to ignore the lesser threat of Serbia (which was something of a conflict of convenience) and help Germany with Russia (the far greater threat of the two). Also states that Germany feared Russia to the point that it needed to bring on the war before Russia got too big to handle due to expansion of Russian industrial/economic sector. Good read, not fast but interesting idea and decently supported by the facts.
Regarding the war with Japan in the 40s, another good and recent book is "Shattered Sword". Book came out last fall. It does a good job of covering the basics of why Japan went to war, the gaps in their strategy and why Japan felt slighted by the Western Powers. The book is focused on the Japanese side of the Battle of Midway, refuting a many of the myths of the battle (the decks of the Japanese Carriers had no aircraft on them when the American Dive bombers hit them at 10:20Am, the sacrifice of Torpedo 8 happened an hour before the dive bombers hit negating the affect on the cap of bringing it down to sea level, ect). The book is rigorously researched and a very good read. Heard somebody who's read a ton of WW2 history call it the best book he's ever read on the subject and that covers a ton of books.
Regarding the war with Japan in the 40s, another good and recent book is "Shattered Sword". Book came out last fall. It does a good job of covering the basics of why Japan went to war, the gaps in their strategy and why Japan felt slighted by the Western Powers. The book is focused on the Japanese side of the Battle of Midway, refuting a many of the myths of the battle (the decks of the Japanese Carriers had no aircraft on them when the American Dive bombers hit them at 10:20Am, the sacrifice of Torpedo 8 happened an hour before the dive bombers hit negating the affect on the cap of bringing it down to sea level, ect). The book is rigorously researched and a very good read. Heard somebody who's read a ton of WW2 history call it the best book he's ever read on the subject and that covers a ton of books.
Bullockracing
Airman 1st Class
The Pacific theater of WWII was actually started by the US, with Commodore Perry's visit to Japan. He sailed military vessels into Japanese homeland waters, and the ruling elite of Japan were forced to accept his terms of trade, essentially forcing the US way down their throat. The Japanese did not allow foreigners on their sacred soil, yet he landed, and when asked to leave initially, he sailed further inland, until the Japanese (who were powerless to force him out) signed the treaty on March 31, 1854. In order to rescind this national affront, they adopted the bushido code as a nation, thereby setting the stage for conflict.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
timshatz said:
Im going to open a thread on this book.
Its the best book about the battle for Midway ever written.
Haztoys
Senior Airman
plan_D said:
Stupid..(eye roll) ...Now I'm Stupid ...great ...
You can not just say ...."Nazi's got into power ..Everyone love them..And lets just take over Europe" ..The Germans started it ...It's not that EZ ...
And if you do not understand what happen in WW1 ...Thats what it looks like happened ...
To understand WW2 ..You most understand WW1..
And a big point is "Germany took the fall for WW1 " ... And the Nazi's prayed on that ...
That's just one of the thing that led to the next round of WW1
Most often none as WW2...
And thank you ...Syscom3 for helping me here ... Who is this guy ..The town troll ... You may but in anytime ...
Plan-D ....I do not want to fight with you ... I do not call names ...And wish you would not also ... I'm just here to learn ...
David
Haztoys
Senior Airman
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Thats what "I" was trying to say...
Haztoys
Senior Airman
syscom3 said:
There was a embargo about or was on the Japanese just before Pearl Harbor
Over the colonizing and all... That was a act of war to the Japanese...
And thats why they atacked Pearl Harbor...
The United States started it ... With the embargo...???
I could be wrong ...
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The embargo's (first scrap steel, then oil) were implimented because of the Japanese agression in China. The "Rape of Nanking" in 1937 was the tipping point of relations between the two countries.
Remember that negotiations between the two countries were often stalled or ruined because of the iron fist the IJA had over the emporer, and the not-so-brilliant state dept attitudes regarding how Japan was really governed.
Remember that negotiations between the two countries were often stalled or ruined because of the iron fist the IJA had over the emporer, and the not-so-brilliant state dept attitudes regarding how Japan was really governed.
evangilder
"Shooter"
Haztoys said:
Once again, knock it off. One more outburst from any of you on this will result in this thread being locked. Last warning.
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
Dang!
- I was just about to start, I feel like I've been gagged now...
I reckon that this reasoning was behind Barbarossa, can you imagine Stalin going 1st...
(Though the Soviet people would likely have overthrown him befoore then, or he'd have already killed any possible Soviet fighting force)
Also the Winter War thing, I feel Britain was (rightfully) terrified of the Soviet Union and Stalin.
- It took a nutter like Hitler to counter a nutter like Stalin.
- I was just about to start, I feel like I've been gagged now... timshatz said:
I reckon that this reasoning was behind Barbarossa, can you imagine Stalin going 1st...
(Though the Soviet people would likely have overthrown him befoore then, or he'd have already killed any possible Soviet fighting force)
Also the Winter War thing, I feel Britain was (rightfully) terrified of the Soviet Union and Stalin.
- It took a nutter like Hitler to counter a nutter like Stalin.
Haztoys
Senior Airman
evangilder said:
Sorry to get everyone upset
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
U didn't get me upset, and for the record, I am the town troll.......
As far as this topic goes, it was either the Treaty of Versailles or Germany that started WWII, depending on how u want to look at it....
I think that the bottom line is that Hitler used the Treaty as a platform for his rise to power, and used that power to start a War....
As far as this topic goes, it was either the Treaty of Versailles or Germany that started WWII, depending on how u want to look at it....
I think that the bottom line is that Hitler used the Treaty as a platform for his rise to power, and used that power to start a War....
