Would WWII Australian public opinion be affected by a Japanese commando attack? (1 Viewer)

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Training is a lot more than that. A new ship needs to be worked in, in particular one that will operate on its own miles from support. There will be problems and these will need to be addressed. In addition the crew needs to blend, different personalities blended or in extreme cases switched out. A submarine is a small boat and nothing can be allowed to fester.
Everyone is has to learn everyone elses role and this takes time. You have to start with small tasks and build up to simulated war scenarios. Its worth noting that almost every German U Boat would have spent 5 - 6 months from commissioning until its first war patrol. There is a reason for that and the reason is, thats how long it takes.

If you want to short cut that then of course you can, but you are putting yourself in a position where you know better than the professionals of the Navies of the World.

You are also working on the basis that this mission you are thinking about isn't a combat mission, a huge assumption.
 
Glider,

The boats weren't filled with rookies, so all that jadda jadda about the men having to know their place is pointless.

The boats were mostly given 3-4 months of training, having the crew simulate attacks, perfecting different procedures and assuring everything worked smoothly during an attack, and finally that nothing was wrong with the boat. That was the purpose of the training patrols. Furthermore it wasn't uncommon for boats on training patrols to attack and sink Allied vessels.
 
Soren
It took at least 5 months to get a U Boat ready for this first war patrol, the evidence is there before you.
As I said you can short cut it, but you are putting yourself ahead of the professionals in the German Navy, who never despite all the pressures they were under, never made that short cut.

As for the experience of the crews there would have been a core of experienced crew members but most would have been rookies. Its inevitable in a service that was growing that fast. Officers would be newly promoted into their new roles and some key petty officers would also be new to their roles.

In other words behind all that jadda jadda is firm logic. As I said, ask anyone, who has served in any navy, in any vessel and they will confirm that.

Also ask yourself 'why did the Germans need 5 months to get a new Submarine ready for its front line role' if I am so wrong. What did they do in those 5 months, party?
 
And Soren you may find German Armed Forces during WW2 sexy or supermen. I don't. Your Scenerio has more holes in it then Swiss Cheese and your own stubborness can't visualize you had made errors and miscalculations. And Caneris being one of the lynch pins with Abhwer being unreliable ( which History Proves he was) in a full scale operations. There is a big difference launching a 1 to 5 men Commando Squad on the American Continent to a 150 man operation stretched over 15,000 Sea Miles to a diverse continent on the other side of the world from Germany. Admit it Soren your scenerio is over ambitious

Soren you are talking poo.
you seem to be the only one who thinks it can be managed.
What is your reply to the fact that the british had cracked the german navel code thanks partly to one of the first computers ever built, Colossus
how is your german army supposed to get to australia when we already know.
a) when you will set off from your starting point.
b) Roughly when you will get here
and c) where and when you land.
How can you defend against an enemy who already knows your whole mission details?
answer you can't.

Emac44,

No, I haven't overlooked logistics. The German U-boats could go a very long way before they needed refueling, something which you seem to have missed. Furthermore there were the "milkcows", U-boats dedicated to refuel resupply German U-boats operating a long way from home.

The Type IXC has a range of 13,800 miles (22,080 km),

Come on Emac44, seriously.

Come on everyone, lets not get derisive to others arguments ...

Soren I think Emac Aussie are right that the 12,000+ miles would make it unlikely that the scenario would work. I agree it would be possible to get there on a type IX, but the benefits would be small. Also Feb 42 is too late, to be most effective the teams should be in place on "Pearl" + 1.


This is more like the way I think the scenario would work.
The Japanese in July 41 would inform Germany of their intent to attack the Allies in the fall of 41. The Axis powers would consult to see what the most damage, panic discord could be done. The reason that I don't see a German attack on Australia is that every type IX would be needed for operation Drumbeat. The Brandenburgers would plan to attack targets on the US Atlantic coast, Caribbean, and possibley also in Western parts of the Indian Ocean. What Germany could do is provide a few operatives some intelligence to the Japanese to aid Japan in attacking targets in Australia the US pacific coast.

{if I were anticipating the most effective possible Axis strategy}

The #1 priority of the Axis must be to strangle Allied shipping. Consider what five German U-boats did on the US east coast at the start of Drumbeat {top 80% of subs averaged 39,000 tons} Now if the Axis combined had 125 subs attacking unprotected Allied ports, the total might be over 3 million tons per month. Absolutely devastating.

The purpose of the commando raids would be as "spoiler" attacks, to sow confusion and concern in the Allied command. The effect would be far worse in the USA than in Australia. The benefit would be for Japan mainly, if they can keep the Australian gov't worried about an invasion it would hamper the defence of N.Guinea Maylasia, which is the object of the exercise. Germany has little to gain from attacking Australia, but much to gain from hitting the USA, as the US is very short of trained troops, aircraft, munitions, everything. The more that a worried US civilian population demands to be kept home for defence are units that won't be sent overseas.

If Australia was like Canada UK there is a shortage of manpower, so having troops building beach defences, patrolling shorelines in OZ is fewer men available for RAAF, RAN etc. The critical time for Japan should be the first 2 months, as an aggressive defence of Maylasia/Singapore could stop the IJA there. As it turned out the defence was so disorganized confused that it failed anyways, but as an attacker you couldn't count on that.

I probably should have put "Allied" instead of "Australia" on the thread title, but Australia was probably in the strongest position, as the population were already concerned about the Japanese menace, and ready to "do what it takes" Canada the USA were quite shocked after Pearl harbour, there was a fair amount of panic after an attack that took place 2,000 miles away.

The question I guess is would the Aust. govt. be willing to gamble that Japan wouldn't invade and send troops elsewhere? Because it seems that in the face of such a threat {Japanese commando's seen as advance elements of an invasion} the government might decide to abandon defence of some other islands to concentrate on defending Australia proper. The Japanese might launch a carrier raid on Sydney or the SE coast to further cause panic.
 
Soren
It took at least 5 months to get a U Boat ready for this first war patrol, the evidence is there before you.
As I said you can short cut it, but you are putting yourself ahead of the professionals in the German Navy, who never despite all the pressures they were under, never made that short cut.

As for the experience of the crews there would have been a core of experienced crew members but most would have been rookies. Its inevitable in a service that was growing that fast. Officers would be newly promoted into their new roles and some key petty officers would also be new to their roles.

In other words behind all that jadda jadda is firm logic. As I said, ask anyone, who has served in any navy, in any vessel and they will confirm that.

Also ask yourself 'why did the Germans need 5 months to get a new Submarine ready for its front line role' if I am so wrong. What did they do in those 5 months, party?

5 months was the standard.

With an experienced crew it wouldn't take 5 months, some training patrols took less than 3 months. And then there were some which took 7 months, and even a year!

Anyway a 3-4 month window is good enough. And as of August 42 there'd be atleast 2 x Type IXD2's available, all that was needed.

Besides it doesn't have to be Type IXD2's which are used, the Type IXC is more than good enough, being capable of travelling both ways with just one stop.
 
Come on everyone, lets not get derisive to others arguments ...

Soren I think Emac Aussie are right that the 12,000+ miles would make it unlikely that the scenario would work. I agree it would be possible to get there on a type IX, but the benefits would be small. Also Feb 42 is too late, to be most effective the teams should be in place on "Pearl" + 1.


This is more like the way I think the scenario would work.
The Japanese in July 41 would inform Germany of their intent to attack the Allies in the fall of 41. The Axis powers would consult to see what the most damage, panic discord could be done. The reason that I don't see a German attack on Australia is that every type IX would be needed for operation Drumbeat. The Brandenburgers would plan to attack targets on the US Atlantic coast, Caribbean, and possibley also in Western parts of the Indian Ocean. What Germany could do is provide a few operatives some intelligence to the Japanese to aid Japan in attacking targets in Australia the US pacific coast.

{if I were anticipating the most effective possible Axis strategy}

The #1 priority of the Axis must be to strangle Allied shipping. Consider what five German U-boats did on the US east coast at the start of Drumbeat {top 80% of subs averaged 39,000 tons} Now if the Axis combined had 125 subs attacking unprotected Allied ports, the total might be over 3 million tons per month. Absolutely devastating.

The purpose of the commando raids would be as "spoiler" attacks, to sow confusion and concern in the Allied command. The effect would be far worse in the USA than in Australia. The benefit would be for Japan mainly, if they can keep the Australian gov't worried about an invasion it would hamper the defence of N.Guinea Maylasia, which is the object of the exercise. Germany has little to gain from attacking Australia, but much to gain from hitting the USA, as the US is very short of trained troops, aircraft, munitions, everything. The more that a worried US civilian population demands to be kept home for defence are units that won't be sent overseas.

If Australia was like Canada UK there is a shortage of manpower, so having troops building beach defences, patrolling shorelines in OZ is fewer men available for RAAF, RAN etc. The critical time for Japan should be the first 2 months, as an aggressive defence of Maylasia/Singapore could stop the IJA there. As it turned out the defence was so disorganized confused that it failed anyways, but as an attacker you couldn't count on that.

I probably should have put "Allied" instead of "Australia" on the thread title, but Australia was probably in the strongest position, as the population were already concerned about the Japanese menace, and ready to "do what it takes" Canada the USA were quite shocked after Pearl harbour, there was a fair amount of panic after an attack that took place 2,000 miles away.

The question I guess is would the Aust. govt. be willing to gamble that Japan wouldn't invade and send troops elsewhere? Because it seems that in the face of such a threat {Japanese commando's seen as advance elements of an invasion} the government might decide to abandon defence of some other islands to concentrate on defending Australia proper. The Japanese might launch a carrier raid on Sydney or the SE coast to further cause panic.

I agree Freebird this debate is getting ridiculous and I will not continue it. Soren lets agree to disagree. I am sorry Soren you will not be abled to convince me of your plan succeeding. My references also comes from different sources of the internet. Sorry I forget to include the source
WWII U-Boats
Gruppe Monsun Boats

I suggest you read my last source on Gruppe Monsun Soren and you will see why I question your sources. This was an actual operation done by the Kriegsmarine in the Indian Ocean and the Arabian Gulf. It had limited success. Out of 11 Uboats sent or dispatched only 4 arrived in Penang which also contridicted another source I had gleaned information from which I admit. But Gruppe Monsun took place in late 1943 not 1942 and the operation and logistics was immense. And if you read the article further you will see Soren how difficult the operation was. Your scenerio suggests 1 Uboat. The Kreigsmarine sent 11 UBoats for long distant attacks in the Indian Ocean. So based on your scenerio and based on actual historical events if 11 Uboats had extreme problems reaching the Indian Ocean Arabian Gulf Penang and or Australia. One sole 1xd2 Uboat in your scenerio is going to be in deep **** during 1942

And on further looking into Gruppe Monsun Operations. Of the 1xd2 Submariens were to be used or were used in Operation Monsun Gruppe all of them were sunk U200 1xd2 sunk June 1943 Commander Heinrich Schonder Sth West of Iceland. U847 Commander Friedrick Guggenburger Sunk August 27th 1943 Saggasso Sea. Other problems arose with the 1XC model Submarines arose as well. With German Torpedoes delievered having been effected by the Tropical Enviroment. It appear in 1943 the heat effected the torpedoes delivered from Germany. And these were just a few problems that occured

uboat.net - U-boat Operations- The Monsun U-boats
 
Now what I will say Soren. This isn't a personal attack on yourself. Please try and understand my point of view. But my concern about your scenerio with what I see as Swiss Cheese in being set in early 1942 wouldn't have been possible. With the data and historical information from Gruppe Monsun as a guide to this conclusion. Gruppe Monsun Operation was in itself a very large operation to conduct from 1943 to 1945. And your scenerio of just 1 1xd2 Submarine with 75 German Elite Troopers heading to Australia and based on the Gruppe Monsun and the evidence of the data on Gruppe Monsun doesn't match up with your scenerio. And remember if a scenerio is to work or be put forward we still have to rely on actual historical events for the scenerio to be feasable. In this case with Gruppe Monsun events it doesn't . Yes the Japanese did float a proposal to the Germans in 1942 to send UBoats to the Indian Ocena but the German Navy for reasons of their own didn't see this as feasable in 1942. But in late 1942 the German Navy began scouting mission with UBoats to the area of Cape of Good Hope to evaluate later expeditions into the Indian Ocean. From what I can see the Gruppe Monsun Uboat formations entering into the Indian Ocean in late 1943 would be as follows as I see it
1 Tactical attacks on shipping coming from the Arabian Sea viz Suez Canal
2 Tactical attacks on shipping Indian Ocean with shipping in pre War Conditions which didn't last long
3 Tactically assist the Japanese in the Indian Ocean Region hampering supplies coming from or too India Australia and New Zealand from or to the European Theatre of War or North Africa or Middle East etc.
4 Trade routes for Axis Naval and Merchant shipping to be established. And transport of materials unavailable or lacking with German or Japanese and Italian War Machine etc. For example Rubber or metals or special munitions or equipment not readily available in great supply either in Germany or Japan and Italy etc.
5 Military Personal or Governmental Personal exchanges by the Germans Italians or Japanese.
6 Exchange of Submarine Technology Tactics Logistics and any other Military Information between Japan Germany and Italy.
7 Patrolling with Japanese Naval Units the South East Asian area. In particular the waters around Indonesia Malaysia Philippines etc etc. With possible survilence of Australia and New Zealand mainlands if the opportunities arose.
8 Incursions into by Uboats into the Pacific from Naval bases in Malaya Singapore and Sarawak

So basing my conclusions of actual events I still can't see your scenerio working in 1942. Maybe in 1943 perhaps. But by that stage the 2nd AIF was home from the Middle East and ready to deploy or have been deployed in PNG and US Naval, Marines. Army and AirForce had already increased on the Australian Mainland. And British US and Australian Military Intelligence by late 1943 had knowledge of German UBoats in the South East Asian Theatre to the Arabian Seas and Indian Ocean. US British Dutch and Australian Submarines themselves based in Freemantle Western Australia could and did cause problems for not only Japanese Merchant and Naval Fleets operating in South East Asian Waters but also German and Italian Naval and Merchant Vessels etc. Now I will also draw your attention to HMAS Sydney incident of the Western Australian Coast in 1941. This incidnet alerted the Australian Government and Military of a real threat to Australian Mainland of possible Axis incursions after this incident. So you have to keep that in mind as well Soren. Plus with in early 1942 Australians had always feared a Yellow Peril attack or invasion of the Australian Mainland and in this case in 1942 it was the Japanese and Australians were alerted to this real possiblity of invasion by the Japanese. Air Raids had already taken place in Darwin Northern Territory ,Northern Western Australia and Far North Queensland. And with the Mini Submarine Attacks that had occured in Sydney Harbour added to the apprehension already in Australia. Yes it is feasable to land German Italian or Japanese elements or even small raiding parties in regions of coastal Australia. But remember Soren if you were to launch these raiders just where precisely as most of the Western Australian Coastline for example is uninhabited and was and still is. It to is also hazardous for shipping with a large Barrier Reef similar in size and extent to that of the Coast of Queensland on the East Coast, But unlike Queensland there are literally hundreds of miles of sandy beaches and cliffs that lead back to nothing further inland you go from the Ocean and Coastline. What I mean by nothing is it is desert featureless barren and has extreme variations of heat and weather conditions. And there is particularly no fresh water available or food and these conditons in Western Australia stretch from the Far North borders with the Northern Territory to Perth and this is a distance of 1200 miles along the coast line approximately. There are isolated communities but even attacking those communities with 75 Brandenberg Troops and cutting of communication by those Elite Troops wouldn't have caused much concern to the Australian People. As often these communities even today are cut of by weather conditions like Cyclones (Hurricanes) Floods when it does rain or other prevailing reasons that effect the Western Australian area. In actual fact Soren given that what I have just explained to you would see your Scenerio fail to impact on the Australian Government or its Population under the guidelines of the Scenerio Freebird had put down originally. Western Australia for your scenerio would be the logical point to attack. Maybe Darwin in a pinch but remember Darwin was on full alert by 1942 after the Japanese Aerial Attacks in 1942. Which leads me also to recall the Aerial Attacks on Broome in Western Australia it too was on full alert after Aerial Attacks there. Ok Gulf of Carpenteria between Northern Territory and Queensland Far Northern Australia. Again similar to Western Australia as it to is isolated but by 1942 with impending threats from PNG and Coral Sea along with the Far North Queensland Eastern Coast was alerted to possible attacks by the Japanese and remember Soren if these attacks had or were to occur the Australian Government Population and Military were already prepared to fall back to what was known as the Brisbane Line. The Australian Government Population and Military was prepared to cut and burn and leave a waste land to any invasion of the continent. Which meant nothing of value of use or significance was to be left to the enemy. Which meant any invasion of Australia was to inherit a waste land. So Soren your scenerio then meets this criteria that the Australians were quiet prepared to sacrifice parts of Australia and leave your scenerio with literally no Military or Propaganda Victory of significance as such. This is what Aussie was trying to explain to you but we got of on other tangents Soren.
 
What we are trying to explain to you Soren even if the Japanese had invaded or your scenerio took place with the idea by Australians at the time was this. The Australian People and Government were prepared to sacrifice 75% of the continent and withdraw to the Brisbane Line. Which stretched just North of Brisbane in Queensland to Whylla South Australia. Anything North and West of the Brisbane Line which included all of the Northern Territory and Western Australia including Perth. Nearly all of Queensland would be left to an invading Army but that Army would inherit burnt destroyed wasteland. The idea is similar to what the USSR was doing in Russia with the invading Axis Forces in that campaign. And remember the great expanses of this country takes years to accommodate to. 2/3rds of Australia Soren is desert. If the enviroment doesn't kill you lack of water food and other logisitcs have to be brought here to Australia. As the Australians were quiet prepared to leave you nothing of value. And Soren this mentality still exsist today. Even with Indonesia. We still have what you would imagine as the Alamo Mentality or the Last Bastion. This isn't a scenerio basis Soren this in Australia is reality. And it was reality even in 1942 or since 1788 of First European Settlement in Australia.

So going by what Freebird had asked how would Australian Public Opinion guage and or
1 Invading Forces
2 Commando style type raid German or Japanese

And I noted Freebird used Brisbane Queensland as the attack point in his scenerio. As Brisbane was the furtherest most Northern City based on the Brisbane Line. Public Opinion would or could be as such
1 Precursor to invasion. Maybe???????
2 Govermnet and Population have already plans to evacuate Northern Parts of Australia, And massive mustering of livestock sheep and cattle were already being driven down from Northern Australia below the Brisbane Line. As soon as Japanese had attacked Hawaii Philippines Malaya and Dutch East Indies evacuation were taking place in Australia. And what couldn't be moved or not was abled too would be destroyed
3 Population since 1788 has already the prospect of attacks by outside powers or foriegn forces. These Foriegn Forces included Soren, China (ASIAN) France Japan and Russia since 1788 to 1942. It is still like that today Soren in the minds of the Australian Public.

So basically as Freebird is wondering or proposing in his scenerio how would this effect Australian Public Opinion or the Government if an attack took place. Either your scenerio or Freebirds? We Australians are already accustomed to it. So basically what we Australians are telling your Soren on the basis of Public or Government Opinion based on this scenerio wouldn't have the desired effect as you imagine it would if the scenerio was based on the USA East and West Coast. If the Japanese had attacked West Coast of the USA and co-ordinated an attack with Germans on East Coast of USA etc. So basically Soren what we are trying to tell you and Freebird has touched on is Australian Population Mentality compared to USA Population Mentality in this scenerios. Now do you understand Soren?
 
I'm glad you cooled down Emac44, now we can have a sensible discussion.

However again Emac44 you haven't been reading what I wrote.

This isn't an invasion we're talking about Emac44, so the Australians wouldn't have to give up any land or retreat etc etc. The operation is a sabateur/guerilla attack, harrassing the Australian military civilian population, hiding then striking, then hiding again, infiltrating the Australian population and then attacking.

The scenario is very possible in 1942, the German naval code being unbroken and the KM subs frequently running successful patrols along the US coast, which was far more dangerous than running along the Australian coast. Besides it's not even a patrolling mission, just a drop off, so there'll be no hanging around or engaging ships.

As for the Australian mentality, well you're not super humans down there my friend, and you'd be pissing your pants just as much as the US citizens would if faced with such an attack. (And this is not a personal attack as any population would act like that) If the attack was carried out like I suggested the civilian population would be scared witless, which is the main purpose of the operation. Furthermore a massive manhunt will be engaged by the Australian government, with masses of checkpoints having to be set up, occupying allot of the Australian military. And the complete destruction of the military convoy will also have a very sobering effect on the Australian military personnel, quite a few soldiers undoubtedly would've had chills down their spines when they were told what they had to hunt down and what they had achieved.
 
I think a massive manhunt wouldn't be necessary , some of the best human trackers of men live in Australia and then just pulerverize the Brandenburgers with obsolete Boomerangs . You wouldn't even need trackers the poor guys after 3 months on a sub would be so pale from lack of sunlight they'd stick out like like albinos at an NCAAP meeting
:lol: They would be cursing the clowns that sent them on this suicide mission . They would not have the resources to perform more then a Dieppe type assualt 24hrs at the most.
 
You've got to be kidding me Pbfoot!

The aboriginals are great trackers alright, and experts at surviving in the bush, but stacking them up against elite soldiers expertedly trained in every type of warfare imaginable, well that is just plain suicide. It would be endlessly simple and easy to lure the trackers into an ambush. The trackers would follow a trail out into the open and bang, they're mowed down by machinegun fire.

And come on, a boomerang ? Good for killing Koalas and such in trees but I'd like to see how effective it is beyond 50m.
 
You've got to be kidding me Pbfoot!

The aboriginals are great trackers alright, and experts at surviving in the bush, but stacking them up against elite soldiers expertedly trained in every type of warfare imaginable, well that is just plain suicide. It would be endlessly simple and easy to lure the trackers into an ambush. The trackers would follow a trail out into the open and bang, they're mowed down by machinegun fire.

And come on, a boomerang ? Good for killing Koalas and such in trees but I'd like to see how effective it is beyond 50m.
serious as can be those pasty white bodies would just stand out so much .
 
Funny how the westerners managed to stay on Australian soil over a hundred years earlier then, and weren't driven back by the fearsome aboriginals ;)

The aboriginals are experts at surviving in the bush and they are expert trackers, BUT, that's it. So as much as I do admire the aboriginals and their knowledge of their surroundings, they'd be deadmeat against the fully armed trained German soldier of WW2.

I mean lets be realistic here Pbfoot, what are they gonna do with their bow arrows, boomerangs and spears against troops wielding machineguns with an effective range of over 3½ km and a 900 - 1,500 rpm rate of fire ?
 
Funny how the westerners managed to stay on Australian soil over a hundred years earlier then, and weren't driven back by the fearsome aboriginals ;)

The aboriginals are experts at surviving in the bush and they are expert trackers, BUT, that's it. So as much as I do admire the aboriginals and their knowledge of their surroundings, they'd be deadmeat against the fully armed trained German soldier of WW2.

I mean lets be realistic here Pbfoot, what are they gonna do with their bow arrows, boomerangs and spears against troops wielding machineguns with an effective range of over 3½ km and a 900 - 1,500 rpm rate of fire ?
I bet you they could manage a radio to point the Boomerangs in , I'm not saying to use them as a fighting force
 
"And come on, a boomerang ? Good for killing Koalas and such in trees but I'd like to see how effective it is beyond 50m."

Extremely effective if you want i get an Abo tell him that you are a hard core KKK member put you 60m away from him and give him a boomerang, for your information there are several types of boomerang, there is the type that returns and is used for killing animals and there is the war boomerang which does not return.

Having said that i do concede they would be no match for germans but as Pb said they would not be feeling too well after 2 months at sea.
 
Pbfoot,

Don't you understand that they'd be shot before hey could ever make a transmission ? Furthermore the German commandoes would be split up in small teams after their first attack, scattered, making it very hard to track any of them down, even with the help of the aboriginals.

Oh, and one more thing, wearing uniforms which blend in with the inviroment and being experts in camouflage and concealment the German commandos wouldn't be easy to spot, even for the aboriginals.

Aussie,

Did you just call me a racist ?

As for the boomerangs, I know about the different types, but tell me what good is it against an elite soldier with a full auto rifle at 50m and beyond ?

For your information 50m is a long way for a boomerang, and it will not be very accurate that range. Furthermore the guy you're throwing this piece of wood at is wearing a steel helmet, so there's no cracking a skull.

Also in the time it takes the aboriginal to prepare, aim and throw his boomerang the German soldier will have already sent a stream of bullets his way.
 
Don't you understand that they'd be shot before hey could ever make a transmission ? Furthermore the German commandoes would be split up in small teams after their first attack, scattered, making it very hard to track any of them down, even with the help of the aboriginals.
Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders were used in WWII as a recon and surveilance force. They wouldn't have to engage the commandos, simply track them down and radio their position. I don't care how elite the Germans were, in the Australian bush they would easily be tracked down by the aborigines. I highly doubt anyone could successfully cover all their tracks, especially if they're hauling around heavy weapons or driving through the bush in trucks.



Oh, and one more thing, wearing uniforms which blend in with the inviroment and being experts in camouflage and concealment the German commandos wouldn't be easy to spot, even for the aboriginals.
Their camo uniforms might be great for Europe but would stand out like dog balls in the Australian bush. Their concealment skills aren't going to help either, as their "tracks" will lead the aboriginals straight to them.


As for the boomerangs, I know about the different types, but tell me what good is it against an elite soldier with a full auto rifle at 50m and beyond ?

For your information 50m is a long way for a boomerang, and it will not be very accurate that range. Furthermore the guy you're throwing this piece of wood at is wearing a steel helmet, so there's no cracking a skull.

Also in the time it takes the aboriginal to prepare, aim and throw his boomerang the German soldier will have already sent a stream of bullets his way.

Agreed, however if the aboriginals were to be used to engage the enemy, it would be in guerrilla type warfare, not stand in the open and throw a boomerang at them. They would simply appear out of the bush, kill one or two at a time with spears and then melt back into the landscape. If they can do this to animals, what chance has a human got?
 
Soren you have it all wrong again. I tried to explain to you that the Elite German Force or Japanese would be seen for what it is.. I tried to explain to you what the Australian PUBLIC OPINION was at the time. But you being an AMERICAN Can't seem to get the idea into your head. The Fact is once again your SCENERIO INVOLVING THE German Navy which you would had used to transport your Elite German Troops to Australia wasn't going to be available. And the information I supplied came from the very same website you used Uboat.net and Operations of Uboats. The Germany Navy was asked by the Japanese if they would consider operations in the Indian Ocean Region 1942. THE GERMAN NAVY DECIDED NOT TO UNTIL 1943. AND THIS IS HISTORICAL FACT WHICH YOU CONSTANTLY SEEM TO IGNORE. AND SEEING THE KRIEGSMARINE WASN'T GOING TO SEND SUBMARINES TO THE INDIAN OCEAN UNTIL 1943 YOUR SCENERIO IN 1942 IS NOW A NON EVENT, WHICH INCLUDES YOUR BRANDENBERG ELITE TROOPERS NOT BEING ABLED TO TRAVEL TO AUSTRALIA IN 1942 BY SUBMARINE. You expect others to read your website information but discount other information given to you.

You just don't seem to understand the Australian Mentality at all in 1942 and I suspect you didn't even bother to read about the Operation of Gruppe Monsun by the Kriegsmarine into the Indian Ocean. If as documented by UBoat.net is precise and accurate that puts questions towards your scenerio you have failed to answer. It puts your whole scenerio into question once more Soren. You wanted websites on information you got it Soren

uboat.net - U-boat Operations- The Monsun U-boats

And as far as I am concerned the Gruppe Monsun Uboats Operations is the best guide for any scenerio into the Indian or Pacific Oceans during World War 2. As I said I am no further going to debate this ridiculous scenerio as it appears Soren has got himself into an area he is trying desperately to defend and is contridicted by actual historical events that actually occured during 1943 to 1945 with Gruppe Monsun and Kriegmarine Operations in the Indian Ocean in World War 2 and the Indian Ocean Uboat Forces deployed during that time 1943 to 1945. The singular fact is the Kriegmarine in 1942 decided it was not tenable to send UBoats to the Indian Ocean until after the Monsoon Periods had expired in the Indian Ocean in 1943. Between 12 to 18 months after which Soren's Scenerio is to take place. One has to rely on what the Kriegsmarine in World War 2 thought was possible. Simple as NO SUBMARINE BY ORDERS OF THE KRIEGMARINE IN 1942 NO BRANDENBERG TROOPS IN THIS SCENERIO. IN 1943 YES POSSIBLE AS PER EXAMPLE OF GRUPPE MONSUN BUT THIS THEN WOULD HAVE A WHOLE DIFFERENT SCENERIO BASIS
 

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