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And Soren you may find German Armed Forces during WW2 sexy or supermen. I don't. Your Scenerio has more holes in it then Swiss Cheese and your own stubborness can't visualize you had made errors and miscalculations. And Caneris being one of the lynch pins with Abhwer being unreliable ( which History Proves he was) in a full scale operations. There is a big difference launching a 1 to 5 men Commando Squad on the American Continent to a 150 man operation stretched over 15,000 Sea Miles to a diverse continent on the other side of the world from Germany. Admit it Soren your scenerio is over ambitious
Soren you are talking poo.
you seem to be the only one who thinks it can be managed.
What is your reply to the fact that the british had cracked the german navel code thanks partly to one of the first computers ever built, Colossus
how is your german army supposed to get to australia when we already know.
a) when you will set off from your starting point.
b) Roughly when you will get here
and c) where and when you land.
How can you defend against an enemy who already knows your whole mission details?
answer you can't.
Emac44,
No, I haven't overlooked logistics. The German U-boats could go a very long way before they needed refueling, something which you seem to have missed. Furthermore there were the "milkcows", U-boats dedicated to refuel resupply German U-boats operating a long way from home.
The Type IXC has a range of 13,800 miles (22,080 km),
Come on Emac44, seriously.
Soren
It took at least 5 months to get a U Boat ready for this first war patrol, the evidence is there before you.
As I said you can short cut it, but you are putting yourself ahead of the professionals in the German Navy, who never despite all the pressures they were under, never made that short cut.
As for the experience of the crews there would have been a core of experienced crew members but most would have been rookies. Its inevitable in a service that was growing that fast. Officers would be newly promoted into their new roles and some key petty officers would also be new to their roles.
In other words behind all that jadda jadda is firm logic. As I said, ask anyone, who has served in any navy, in any vessel and they will confirm that.
Also ask yourself 'why did the Germans need 5 months to get a new Submarine ready for its front line role' if I am so wrong. What did they do in those 5 months, party?
Come on everyone, lets not get derisive to others arguments ...
Soren I think Emac Aussie are right that the 12,000+ miles would make it unlikely that the scenario would work. I agree it would be possible to get there on a type IX, but the benefits would be small. Also Feb 42 is too late, to be most effective the teams should be in place on "Pearl" + 1.
This is more like the way I think the scenario would work. The Japanese in July 41 would inform Germany of their intent to attack the Allies in the fall of 41. The Axis powers would consult to see what the most damage, panic discord could be done. The reason that I don't see a German attack on Australia is that every type IX would be needed for operation Drumbeat. The Brandenburgers would plan to attack targets on the US Atlantic coast, Caribbean, and possibley also in Western parts of the Indian Ocean. What Germany could do is provide a few operatives some intelligence to the Japanese to aid Japan in attacking targets in Australia the US pacific coast.
{if I were anticipating the most effective possible Axis strategy}
The #1 priority of the Axis must be to strangle Allied shipping. Consider what five German U-boats did on the US east coast at the start of Drumbeat {top 80% of subs averaged 39,000 tons} Now if the Axis combined had 125 subs attacking unprotected Allied ports, the total might be over 3 million tons per month. Absolutely devastating.
The purpose of the commando raids would be as "spoiler" attacks, to sow confusion and concern in the Allied command. The effect would be far worse in the USA than in Australia. The benefit would be for Japan mainly, if they can keep the Australian gov't worried about an invasion it would hamper the defence of N.Guinea Maylasia, which is the object of the exercise. Germany has little to gain from attacking Australia, but much to gain from hitting the USA, as the US is very short of trained troops, aircraft, munitions, everything. The more that a worried US civilian population demands to be kept home for defence are units that won't be sent overseas.
If Australia was like Canada UK there is a shortage of manpower, so having troops building beach defences, patrolling shorelines in OZ is fewer men available for RAAF, RAN etc. The critical time for Japan should be the first 2 months, as an aggressive defence of Maylasia/Singapore could stop the IJA there. As it turned out the defence was so disorganized confused that it failed anyways, but as an attacker you couldn't count on that.
I probably should have put "Allied" instead of "Australia" on the thread title, but Australia was probably in the strongest position, as the population were already concerned about the Japanese menace, and ready to "do what it takes" Canada the USA were quite shocked after Pearl harbour, there was a fair amount of panic after an attack that took place 2,000 miles away.
The question I guess is would the Aust. govt. be willing to gamble that Japan wouldn't invade and send troops elsewhere? Because it seems that in the face of such a threat {Japanese commando's seen as advance elements of an invasion} the government might decide to abandon defence of some other islands to concentrate on defending Australia proper. The Japanese might launch a carrier raid on Sydney or the SE coast to further cause panic.
serious as can be those pasty white bodies would just stand out so much .You've got to be kidding me Pbfoot!
The aboriginals are great trackers alright, and experts at surviving in the bush, but stacking them up against elite soldiers expertedly trained in every type of warfare imaginable, well that is just plain suicide. It would be endlessly simple and easy to lure the trackers into an ambush. The trackers would follow a trail out into the open and bang, they're mowed down by machinegun fire.
And come on, a boomerang ? Good for killing Koalas and such in trees but I'd like to see how effective it is beyond 50m.
I bet you they could manage a radio to point the Boomerangs in , I'm not saying to use them as a fighting forceFunny how the westerners managed to stay on Australian soil over a hundred years earlier then, and weren't driven back by the fearsome aboriginals
The aboriginals are experts at surviving in the bush and they are expert trackers, BUT, that's it. So as much as I do admire the aboriginals and their knowledge of their surroundings, they'd be deadmeat against the fully armed trained German soldier of WW2.
I mean lets be realistic here Pbfoot, what are they gonna do with their bow arrows, boomerangs and spears against troops wielding machineguns with an effective range of over 3½ km and a 900 - 1,500 rpm rate of fire ?
Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders were used in WWII as a recon and surveilance force. They wouldn't have to engage the commandos, simply track them down and radio their position. I don't care how elite the Germans were, in the Australian bush they would easily be tracked down by the aborigines. I highly doubt anyone could successfully cover all their tracks, especially if they're hauling around heavy weapons or driving through the bush in trucks.Don't you understand that they'd be shot before hey could ever make a transmission ? Furthermore the German commandoes would be split up in small teams after their first attack, scattered, making it very hard to track any of them down, even with the help of the aboriginals.
Their camo uniforms might be great for Europe but would stand out like dog balls in the Australian bush. Their concealment skills aren't going to help either, as their "tracks" will lead the aboriginals straight to them.Oh, and one more thing, wearing uniforms which blend in with the inviroment and being experts in camouflage and concealment the German commandos wouldn't be easy to spot, even for the aboriginals.
As for the boomerangs, I know about the different types, but tell me what good is it against an elite soldier with a full auto rifle at 50m and beyond ?
For your information 50m is a long way for a boomerang, and it will not be very accurate that range. Furthermore the guy you're throwing this piece of wood at is wearing a steel helmet, so there's no cracking a skull.
Also in the time it takes the aboriginal to prepare, aim and throw his boomerang the German soldier will have already sent a stream of bullets his way.