Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'm lost for words - it's shameful and disgusting.
Wrecks of Dutch warships have disappeared
- Thread starter Marcel
- Start date
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How can this thing even be done without someone knowing? I assume it would be quite an undertaking.
Thorlifter
Captain
While this story is sickening, it's also incredible.
How does one just come in and take a 560 foot, 6,600 ton warship and not be noticed?
But also, what are they doing with it? I'm guessing selling the majority as scrap and selling off what they can as souveniers? It's not like they are going to restore it.
How does one just come in and take a 560 foot, 6,600 ton warship and not be noticed?
But also, what are they doing with it? I'm guessing selling the majority as scrap and selling off what they can as souveniers? It's not like they are going to restore it.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Time to get out the satellite photos and hunt down these douchebags.
They and any graverobbers should be put down like a rabid dog.
They and any graverobbers should be put down like a rabid dog.
If true, we should understand that they were not happy to have the western colonists and aggressive japs there, shouldn't we ?
They may be only cleaning their sacred seabed and recycling the wrecks.
I don't blame them at least even if true.
They may be only cleaning their sacred seabed and recycling the wrecks.
I don't blame them at least even if true.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
It shouldn't matter, Shinpachi...a gravesite is a gravesite, no matter the origin.
And when a warship (or any vessel for that matter) sinks, it becomes part of the ecosystem much like a reef, offering both a sanctuary and a source of food, for the sea life.
There are a few exceptions for raising a vessel, like the Confederate submarine Hunley, because of it's historical significance - and the Confederate sailors that were found aboard were given full military honors with their burial.
The remains of the sailors on those stolen ships got nothing...
And when a warship (or any vessel for that matter) sinks, it becomes part of the ecosystem much like a reef, offering both a sanctuary and a source of food, for the sea life.
There are a few exceptions for raising a vessel, like the Confederate submarine Hunley, because of it's historical significance - and the Confederate sailors that were found aboard were given full military honors with their burial.
The remains of the sailors on those stolen ships got nothing...
In case of about 300,000 Japanese remains in the Pacific area which cannot be recovered from the seabed, Japanese government asks local governments protection of the graveyards with financial aid. Nothing is free of charge in the countries of heathens. Guarantee their lives and no problem.
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Thorlifter
Captain
Isn't it strange how money changes things!
Shinpachi, as far as you know, has there ever been an issue with Japanese ships or sunken planes being looted or stolen?
Shinpachi, as far as you know, has there ever been an issue with Japanese ships or sunken planes being looted or stolen?
Financial aid is necessary when they need it to be more cooperative with us.
There are many sunken Japanese ships in the Philippines but I have never heard of any troubles except a few skulls were damaged by local divers decades ago. They use the wrecks as tourist attractions to gain more money. No problem for us as long as the wrecks and remains are intact.
More than 3,500 ships were sunken.
There are many sunken Japanese ships in the Philippines but I have never heard of any troubles except a few skulls were damaged by local divers decades ago. They use the wrecks as tourist attractions to gain more money. No problem for us as long as the wrecks and remains are intact.
More than 3,500 ships were sunken.
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- Thread starter
- #30
That's true, but they could have just said so and we could have talked about it and even help to do it in a respectful manner. Actually I think this was done to gain profit by a rich criminal group. In that case, this is totally wrong.
rank amateur
Airman 1st Class
I rather dislike the word "salvaged" in this matter. I fear these ships were not salvaged in any form, they were pillaged. I fear they were ruthlessly torn apart for the scrapmetal. Funny enough even the experts do not know how it must have been done. The Javasea is not really deep with 70 meter but you still need a lot of equipment and men to get this done. It hardly seems worth the effort.
By the way, in the 75 years since the sinking, it is not likely much has remained of the casualties.
By the way, in the 75 years since the sinking, it is not likely much has remained of the casualties.
This is how things go when no firm evidences to blame.
Warship Lost in the Java Sea, Indonesia Rejects Accusations Netherlands (through Google Translation)
I recommend Dutch government to consult with Japanese government for help as there used to be such an agreement like this -
"
[Title] Treaty of Peace with Japan
[Place] San Francisco
[Date] September 8, 1951
Article 14
1. Japan will promptly enter into negotiations with Allied Powers so desiring, whose present territories were occupied by Japanese forces and damaged by Japan, with a view to assisting to compensate those countries for the cost of repairing the damage done, by making available the services of the Japanese people in production, salvaging and other work for the Allied Powers in question. Such arrangements shall avoid the imposition of additional liabilities on other Allied Powers, and, where the manufacturing of raw materials is called for, they shall be supplied by the Allied Powers in question, so as not to throw any foreign exchange burden upon Japan."
I think this has been expired but they would listen as Dutch is no enemy any more.
Warship Lost in the Java Sea, Indonesia Rejects Accusations Netherlands (through Google Translation)
I recommend Dutch government to consult with Japanese government for help as there used to be such an agreement like this -
"
[Title] Treaty of Peace with Japan
[Place] San Francisco
[Date] September 8, 1951
Article 14
1. Japan will promptly enter into negotiations with Allied Powers so desiring, whose present territories were occupied by Japanese forces and damaged by Japan, with a view to assisting to compensate those countries for the cost of repairing the damage done, by making available the services of the Japanese people in production, salvaging and other work for the Allied Powers in question. Such arrangements shall avoid the imposition of additional liabilities on other Allied Powers, and, where the manufacturing of raw materials is called for, they shall be supplied by the Allied Powers in question, so as not to throw any foreign exchange burden upon Japan."
I think this has been expired but they would listen as Dutch is no enemy any more.
- Thread starter
- #34
Indonesia already promised their help trying to find out what happened to the ships.
But this message is not really honest as foran operation like this, you would not have to patrol the area to notice. Getting those big ships from 70 Metres involved quite a lot of equipment.
Tsunami also doesn't seem likely as the seabed should have been disturbed which doesn't seem to be the case.
But this message is not really honest as foran operation like this, you would not have to patrol the area to notice. Getting those big ships from 70 Metres involved quite a lot of equipment.
Tsunami also doesn't seem likely as the seabed should have been disturbed which doesn't seem to be the case.
- Thread starter
- #36
Don't worry, we will.
- Thread starter
- #38
But Shinpachi, I think the article you posted is more a media making more than it is than a real article. The Dutch government asked and were promised cooperation from the Indonesian government. I've not heard about the Dutch government blaming the Indonesian government for anything.
I just don't get how this happened without anyone noticing.
