WW2 USN Strategic Bombing Capability

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While Japan had domestic oil fields in Akita, Niigata and Nutsu, their production was minimal compared to American output. They looked to the oil fields in Korea, Manchuria, China, Burma and Formosa, then ultimately the Dutch East Indies, Sumatra, Borneo and Malayasia. They even purchased oil from neutral Sakhalin and Siberian sources.

They had sufficient refineries on the home islands to refine the inbound oil, they simply did not have the ability to properly protect the tankers that were vital to the process.
 
Thank you.
AS in many of the these cases the yield of the various oil fields is important. Going to war with Russian over small, low yield oil fields was probably not smart. May be different if they are high yield. I am questioning this as i have no idea as to how much was known about the resources in Northern Asia in the 1920s and 30s when this plan was being put forward.
A bit like nobody knew oil existed in Libya?
The Dutch East Indies crude was also pretty high grade stuff. It contained a lot of the "good stuff" to make high grade aviation fuel (at least high grade in the 1930s context.)

Not sure why the Japanese anti-sub effort was so poor. While attacking merchant ships was not a high priority for Japanese subs (direct involvement in the "decisive" battle was more their doctrine and may have carried over to the anti-sub effort). However the example of the Germans in both WW I and the first few years of WW II certainly showed the vulnerability of long sea supply lines.
Perhaps they were betting on taking out any bases the enemy subs could operate from?
Although they spent a lot of effort in building very long range subs themselves.
 

Apparently, Manchuria has long been sought, and fought over, by Russia, the USSR, Japan and China.
I don't know if the Hokushin-ron policy took into account a potential petroleum embargo against Japan.

Japan's Economic Expansion into China in World War 2 | OnThisDay.com

Again from Wiki, but it seems the army preferred the Hokushin-ron northern route while the navy advocated for the Nanshin-ron southern route.
As we know, politics eventually favored the navy.

I wonder if the framers and/or advocates of the Hokushin-ron northern route considered the possible reactions, i.e., an oil embargo, from the west to such a course of action.
 

Japan had been fighting the Second Sino-Japanese War since July 7, 1937, and were unable to defeat China.
How could Japan accomplish in North America what it had been unable to against its neighbor?
 
One of the many blunders of the IJN, was the understatement of their submarine fleet.

When their submarines were deployed properly, they accounted for quite a few Allied warships, but their deployment was not in such a manner as to maximize their potential, like the Germans or Americans.
 



The presence of oil in Lybia was known from 1914, as small quantities were found excavating wells for drinking water and by a geological survey made in the '30s from an Italian geologist, Ardito Desio, more known for the K2 mountain climbing.

Lybia is a huge sincline



exactly the right place to find oil while, for example, Egypt is on an anticline, and in Egypt oil is lacking.

The problem is that in Lybia oil is very deep, from 5000 m to 7000 m and, in the '30s, there was no way to drill a hole, perfectly vertical and straight, to those depths. So the Lybian oil remained were it was until the late '50s, when the suitable technology was developed.

And, being so deep, the Lybian oil is of a very good quality.
 

Implicit in any west coast invasion plan would necessarily be establishment of a staging area in Hawaii from which the invasion would be launched. This would be necessary anyway as a base for interdiction of the Australia pipeline.
 

A couple of reasons why: ONE, US sub capabilities, largely stagnant at a WWI level through the lean budget years of the 20s and 30s, took a quantum leap forward just before WWll with the new classes of fleet boats. The IJN was slow to take this into account. They were still thinking in terms of S-boats. TWO, they lagged behind the western world in electronics in general and particularly sonar. This didn't bother them, as they didn't consider our subs much of a threat, and proudly thought theirs were state of the art. Besides, they didn't have much concept of the strategic value of subs as commerce raiders. It was all about the decisive battle.
 
Shin, earlier in this thread you wrote:
"... Japanese army in China did not have to go back to Japan as they were deployed there to build up new Chinese Empire.
It was a simple story."

I am curious to understand this more fully ... are you saying that the Japanese army in China were "settlers" who were going to remain in China and reform the society, make it more productive, more harmonious with the economic needs to the Homeland, etc.?

Please write a little more about this.
 
Your curiosity seems endless, MM.
I sometimes forget your age

Building up a new Chinese Empire was a major premise for Japanese to invade like Mongolians and Manchurians did in their old times.
Japanese settlers in Manchukuo were already happy to speak Chinese and accept the local culture.
If everything had gone well, the country of Japan would have been disappeared to be a part of China in the 21st century.
The term "China" originally means "The center of the world" to be adored by Asians.
So, it was a simple story.
 
From a Post in the above mentioned Midway Thread.

The Japanese were dependent on the US for about 80% of their oil and when the US started the Oil embargo in Aug 1941 and the British and Dutch joined Japan was in big trouble. Without those three Japan could not come up with 10% of the oil it needed so every month that they waited to grab the Dutch east indies oil fields (which could produce as 90% as much as Russia and Columbia combined in late 1930s) meant that their reserves shrank. The Japanese were also about 88% reliant on imported iron, 50% on zinc, 80% on tin, 100% on cotton, 99% on wool and 100% on rubber. Securing their own supply lines in addition to securing the sources was the main objective. Taking the oil fields with almost 30 submarines between the oil fields and Japanese home islands wasn't a good solution.

Now perhaps these numbers are in error, after two years I have forgotten were I got them but they point out that the main goal of the Japanese attacks HAD to be the Dutch East Indies oil fields AND a secure line of communication between the oil fields and the home Islands.
 
Not to be a dick or anything, but Japan coming anywhere near conquering the U.S. really wasn't in the cards. Even if the Lex, Sara and the Big E had been taken out at Pearl Harbor the Yorktown, Hornet, Wasp and if needs be Ranger would come from the Atlantic post haste.

Also remember the Essex was commissioned in December of '42, with 28 sisters to follow, plus six super dreadnaughts with four more on the way as the surface escort. The best Japan could hope for would have been a quick negotiated peace to stop the oncoming American juggernaut, and because of the nature of the opening of hostilities (i.e. Sneak Attack) that wasn't going to happen.

So in the end, taking that and the raw material situation into account, what the Japanese accomplished was, in reality, just about what they were going to accomplish, there isn't much wiggle room for "what if" scenarios.

*EDIT* Actually, upon reflection, I doubt the Ranger would have been brought to the Pacific considering her short comings.
 
The Ranger might depend on how desperate things were and/or other duties (aircraft ferry?) it could perform in keeping the other ships at the pointy end of things, at least until other carrier conversions showed up. Either escort carriers or the converted Clevelands.

The Massive US ship building program was not a secret, having been debated in congress and published in some newspapers. A 1938 spending bill called for a 20% increase in the US navy and other bills/authorizations had followed. Launchings were popular newsreel footage. Even the first two Iowa Class battleships had been laid down before Pearl Harbor.
Anything the Japanese were going to do had to be done quickly or not at all.
 
Shinpachi, this is a mind-blowing concept! Japan to merge into China? And I suppose, to create a new dynasty based on Bushido and the Imperial lineage of Japan? Wouldn't that have poked Mao in the eye!
"Hey Liz, move over; the US is coming back to the fold! We're gonna merge into the UK and save you from your Brexit disaster, but you're gonna have to yield your throne to the Trump Dynasty!"
 

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