#1 American Killer, ETO???

I agree, I am talking about honoring the soldiers. There are obviously exceptions, but I mean the ones to honor are especially the enlisted and junior officers that were just doing what they were told to do. I don't think we should honor Hitler, or Goebbels, or any host of others. I mean soldiers in general. Remember, we are honoring the soldier, not the politician or the idea.

Well said!

evangilder said:

If I can keep cranking, I am looking to get it out by the end of the year. I write alot anyway, and these stories are fascinating, so I have a vested interest to get them out for others to read. I am editing and adding to one tomorrow after another interview with Bernie Schneider. He was awarded the Silver Star in Italy. He had a "million dollar wound", shrapnel in his foot. Yet, he returned to his unit, just in time for the Anzio landing! I will give you a bit of a teaser though. He was awarded the Silver Star for facing down enemy fire to retreive 6 of his wounded comrades and bring them to safety and to get medical attention. He braved the enemy fire 6 times to get his buddies, one by one. This was AFTER being wounded himself in the initial attack.

Yet he still says it was "no big deal"! That is one hell of a guy!

Click to expand...

Shoulda gotten the Medal of Honor for that!

=S=

Lunatic

evangilder said:

I agree, I am talking about honoring the soldiers. There are obviously exceptions, but I mean the ones to honor are especially the enlisted and junior officers that were just doing what they were told to do. I don't think we should honor Hitler, or Goebbels, or any host of others. I mean soldiers in general. Remember, we are honoring the soldier, not the politician or the idea.

Click to expand...

It depends on what they did. Remember, the German soldiers who first occupied Poland directly participated in the massacres. They didn't like it but they did it. It was not until it became apparent to the German high command that it was having a bad effect on Army moral that they transfered such duties to the SS. And even then, the Army officers set up things for the SS to come in and do the dirty work, knowing full well what was going to happen.

And the Japanese cruelties, espeically in China, were commited by the "average" soldiers.

I cannot afford any measure of honor to these people. Personally I think a wall of shame should be erected and every soldier who participated in such acts, orders or no, should be listed on that wall.

Edit:

But that should include soldiers from all sides. If it can be documented they participated, their name should go on the wall!

=S=

Lunatic

Great Idea....

RG_Lunatic said:

Personally I think a wall of shame should be erected and every soldier who participated in such acts, orders or no, should be listed on that wall.

Edit:

But that should include soldiers from all sides. If it can be documented they participated, their name should go on the wall!

=S=

Lunatic

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Fair enough! If only such a thing were possible.

i don't think they should be put there if they were ordered to............

RG_Lunatic said:

evangilder said:

If I can keep cranking, I am looking to get it out by the end of the year. I write alot anyway, and these stories are fascinating, so I have a vested interest to get them out for others to read. I am editing and adding to one tomorrow after another interview with Bernie Schneider. He was awarded the Silver Star in Italy. He had a "million dollar wound", shrapnel in his foot. Yet, he returned to his unit, just in time for the Anzio landing! I will give you a bit of a teaser though. He was awarded the Silver Star for facing down enemy fire to retreive 6 of his wounded comrades and bring them to safety and to get medical attention. He braved the enemy fire 6 times to get his buddies, one by one. This was AFTER being wounded himself in the initial attack.

Yet he still says it was "no big deal"! That is one hell of a guy!

Click to expand...

Shoulda gotten the Medal of Honor for that!









=S=

Lunatic

Click to expand...

I totally agree, and I wonder if that is what he was put in for. That is one of the reasons that I am going to tap the National Archives, I want to find his original medal citation/recommendation. Besides, to this day, he does not know who put him in for the medal. I want to find that out so he knows.

RG_Lunatic said:

evangilder said:

I agree, I am talking about honoring the soldiers. There are obviously exceptions, but I mean the ones to honor are especially the enlisted and junior officers that were just doing what they were told to do. I don't think we should honor Hitler, or Goebbels, or any host of others. I mean soldiers in general. Remember, we are honoring the soldier, not the politician or the idea.

Click to expand...

It depends on what they did. Remember, the German soldiers who first occupied Poland directly participated in the massacres. They didn't like it but they did it. It was not until it became apparent to the German high command that it was having a bad effect on Army moral that they transfered such duties to the SS. And even then, the Army officers set up things for the SS to come in and do the dirty work, knowing full well what was going to happen.

And the Japanese cruelties, espeically in China, were commited by the "average" soldiers.

I cannot afford any measure of honor to these people. Personally I think a wall of shame should be erected and every soldier who participated in such acts, orders or no, should be listed on that wall.

Edit:

But that should include soldiers from all sides. If it can be documented they participated, their name should go on the wall!

=S=

Lunatic

Click to expand...

I agree that there were soldiers that committed atrocities, on all sides. I am not saying we honor the soldiers who went into Nanking, or any other horrible thing. I am talking about the ordinary soldiers. I think most people realize that the ones being honored are the average Joes. Because if you have none because atrocities committed, then there wouldn't be any memorials, anywhere. I am not defending the inhumane actions of soldiers that have committed atrocities. I just think that a neutral "Brave soldiers died here, or in this war" with a brief account of the battle is sufficient. In the case of someplace like Nanking, you have a memorial for those that fell prey to the rampaging Japanese soldiers.

RG_Lunatic said:

evangilder said:

I agree, I am talking about honoring the soldiers. There are obviously exceptions, but I mean the ones to honor are especially the enlisted and junior officers that were just doing what they were told to do. I don't think we should honor Hitler, or Goebbels, or any host of others. I mean soldiers in general. Remember, we are honoring the soldier, not the politician or the idea.

Click to expand...

It depends on what they did. Remember, the German soldiers who first occupied Poland directly participated in the massacres. They didn't like it but they did it. It was not until it became apparent to the German high command that it was having a bad effect on Army moral that they transfered such duties to the SS. And even then, the Army officers set up things for the SS to come in and do the dirty work, knowing full well what was going to happen.

And the Japanese cruelties, espeically in China, were commited by the "average" soldiers.

I cannot afford any measure of honor to these people. Personally I think a wall of shame should be erected and every soldier who participated in such acts, orders or no, should be listed on that wall.

Edit:

But that should include soldiers from all sides. If it can be documented they participated, their name should go on the wall!

=S=

Lunatic

Click to expand...

I too believe that any soldier that commits attrocities is shaming his country and himself. I believe these people should be hunted down and pay for there sins but you have to draw the line somewhere. You have to realize though that the vast majority of soldiers on any side, and I truely mean the vast majority did not commit horrific acts. The vast ammount were just soldiers doing there jobs as a soldier. They did not just go around killing innocent women and children and civilians, they did not go and massacre soldiers that had surrendured. You can not place the whole German and Japanese people in this group and you can not condemn them for what had happened. If you were to do this you would have to condemn the US for slavery and the way they treated the Native Americans, killing and driving them from there lands. You would have to condemn the British for the way they treated the Irish and the Scottish and the colonists in Africa and Asia. You would have to condemn the Russians for they way that Stalin and Lenin treated there own people. You would have to condemn the allied countrys also for the attrocities that there soldiers committed, though this was far fewer than the German soldiers. Basically the point I am trying to get it is that the German and the Japanese people did committ these acts as a whole, yes the party should be held responsible and the soldiers that committed the acts. Yes they should pay for there sins dearly but not the people and not the soldiers who fought for there country because it was there duty and an honor to do so. My Grandfather was a good man he was a Major in the Wehrmacht and fought in Stalingrad, my fathers adoptive father was a US soldier who landed on Omaha Beach. They died 1 week apart from one another and to the day they died they were friends. They were friends because they both were honorable men who fought for there country because it is what you did. You did what was expected of you. They did not hate each other because they were from opposing sides in a horrific war. The point I am trying to get at and please try to understand is that the soldiers themselves can not be put in the same pot as the evil men who did the horrific things, and neither was the people themselves.

Well put, Adler. I agree.

I dont know it is just how I feel as a soldier myself. I believe that the soldiers here in Iraq should be the same also. The soldiers that committed those terrible deeds at the Abu Grabie (i can never spell it or say it correctly) prison are the same they shamed themselve and their country. I believe they should pay dearly for what they did. They were not soldiers when they committed those acts they were not human.

They were certainly not soldiers then, they were more like the common thugs that we are trying to rid that place of. I do think that the incident should never have gotten to the press though. Things like that need to be handled internally, otherwise the press wets their pants and drools all over themselves. Thankfully, I have enough reports from non-media sources of the good things happening to their. Unfortunately, the mainstream press reports only the bad stuff. But I will stand behind all you guys over there that are fighting the good fight. You have my support, always.

The process of punishment has already begun, according to the news.

evangilder said:

They were certainly not soldiers then, they were more like the common thugs that we are trying to rid that place of. I do think that the incident should never have gotten to the press though. Things like that need to be handled internally, otherwise the press wets their pants and drools all over themselves. Thankfully, I have enough reports from non-media sources of the good things happening to their. Unfortunately, the mainstream press reports only the bad stuff. But I will stand behind all you guys over there that are fighting the good fight. You have my support, always.

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I agree with you fully. The press only sees the bad things that happen. The good things that we are doing are never told and no one ever knows about it and no one understands what is going on over here. And it is a shame. And thankyour for your support.

The media has exploited this to the full guys. Abu Grave as it should be called. Heck how do we know that our guys are not getting the same treatment, at least we haven't beheaded anyone recently. Granted we should not lower ourselves to their form of system but you get my drift. Torture and inquisitions have happened since the first days of man waring upon one another......it sucks but it is a fact of life. I would rather not take sides one or the other concerning the prison sitiuation but those guys in our care are dogs, no not even that good, slugs is more fitting, and Mosul should be turned to glass or better yet scrpaed off and turned into the largest Velodrome in the world.

I would rather not state my opinion on those matters of Mosul or what not because I feel that we should not lower ourselves to there standard.

Eagle you shouldn,t anyway since you are serving in our armed forces. I've been there done that and have been to Israel, Jordan back in the 1980's. Yeah I have sepcial information which I will not reveal by myself or by whom. simple point and this is getting way off topic. those mid-east folk want our entrails hung on a wall........

accept it or not

v/r and thanks for serving soldier !

Erich ~

I will not deny that but I dont think that everyone of them is like that. I have friends in Germany who are islamic and muslim and they are good people and do not wish harm upon anyone.

AWWWWwwwwww.. Isnt it sad.... Poor little Iraqi soldiers and terrorists and insurgents get stripped naked and piled on one another, and pose for pictures....

Awwwwwww... I feel so sorry for them.... Thats so very embarrassing and cruel.... All the Americans that were involved should be killed.... Oh, too harsh you say???

How about life in prison???? Would that make all u tenderhearted people of this world happy????

Gimme a break... Some good guys are getting burned on this BS.....

Oh, and BTW, just as a reminder, when u go to a US Penitentiary for any length of time, unless u are a monster, u WILL get raped... Forcibly....

Brutally....

And thats just jail, not WAR...... Did anyone forget that these were POWs and as such, had information inside of them that could save countless Allied and NATO lives???

100's of lives maybe???????? Who knows... Saving just one American, or Brit or Czech or Aussie or Spanish Life is more important to me than the damn feelings of a bunch of guys WHO ARE TRYING TO KILL ME AND MY FREAKING COMRADES IN ARMS!!!!!!!!

Now that I have vented....
What they did was stupid and wrong, and they deserve to be punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice...

BY THE MILITARY!!!!!! Not all of Mother Earths population.....

This whole thing has been blown way outta proportion by the Media....