Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
found some pics in books of mid-40 Bf 109Es with Weiss '13' and Gelb '13'. I'll scan later today.
13's.... (2 Viewers)
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Lucky13
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Thanks Chris, no stress though on my behalf though.... 8) 
For what I can remember Terry, old chap, of the 1/48 Tamiya E-4/Trop that I still have in Sweden, it's a nice kit....
These two lovely birds are at Mr H for £12 something-something, so you'll get 3 1/2 Tamiya kits for that Eduard price....hmmmm!
A bit of confusion here as well....
How many F's, G's and K's did Bartels fly, found a fifth one! We have 13, Messerschmitt Bf 109F-4 Wk.Nr.13169 - Petsamo, Northern Finland, April 1942. 13+=, Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6/R-6 - Kalamaki (near Athens), Greece, September 8 1943. 13+~, Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6/R-6 Trop - again Kalamaki, Greece, September 18 1943. 13+~, Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10 - yet again Kalamaki, Greece, August 15 1944. And his 13+~, Messerschmitt Bf 109K-4 Wk.Nr.130359 - Achmer, Germany, November 1944.
Is there ANY way to find out if his G-6/R6 = and G-6/R6 Trop ~ (in this case Wk. Nr. 27169) is the one and the same machine?
For what I can remember Terry, old chap, of the 1/48 Tamiya E-4/Trop that I still have in Sweden, it's a nice kit....
These two lovely birds are at Mr H for £12 something-something, so you'll get 3 1/2 Tamiya kits for that Eduard price....hmmmm!
A bit of confusion here as well....
How many F's, G's and K's did Bartels fly, found a fifth one! We have 13, Messerschmitt Bf 109F-4 Wk.Nr.13169 - Petsamo, Northern Finland, April 1942. 13+=, Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6/R-6 - Kalamaki (near Athens), Greece, September 8 1943. 13+~, Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6/R-6 Trop - again Kalamaki, Greece, September 18 1943. 13+~, Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10 - yet again Kalamaki, Greece, August 15 1944. And his 13+~, Messerschmitt Bf 109K-4 Wk.Nr.130359 - Achmer, Germany, November 1944.
Is there ANY way to find out if his G-6/R6 = and G-6/R6 Trop ~ (in this case Wk. Nr. 27169) is the one and the same machine?
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Thanks for the info on the Tamiya 'emil' Jan. As regards identifying Barties kites, the only sure way would be getting the Werke Nrs of course. But, if the dates concerned were fairly close, it is likely they could be one and the same machine. Is there anything in any of the available bumf about the unit re-equiping? Let's face it, unless the usage was months apart, if the airframe was OK, and not stressed/worn out etc, the the only real thing that might need 'seeing to' would be the noisy clanking thing at the front - so why bin one bird for another?
The ones I know of....for Bartels,
Black 13 Bf109E-7 with 8/JG 5
Black 13 Bf109F-4 W.Nr.13169 with 8/JG 5 ( 20-25 Vics? on Rudder)
Black 13 Bf109F-4 'possibly' same aircraft above with Wreath and 45 (vics) on rudder.Nov 42
Red 13+= Bf109G-6 W.Nr 27169? Reported as same aircraft source in Germany.
Red 13+^^ Bf109G-6 W.Nr 27169 70 Vics
Bf109G-6? No markings visible but likely A Red 13, 76 victories noted as Mar 44 IV/JG27
Bf109G-10 Yellow 13 W.Nr.130359
Threw this together so will need to recheck in case i mixed something up...?
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Lucky13
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What is the difference between his confusing G-6's, the /R6 and the /R6 Trop, is it just the tropical airfilter? Because the = and the ~ keeps being referred to as an G-6/R6 and an G-6/R6 Trop respectively.....
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- #186
Lucky13
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Over to a camouflage question, of course with a "13" in mind.... Didn't JG54 and JG77 have some of the most elaborate camouflages, similar to each other, during Battle of Britain and also if I remember correctly used during early Barbarossa? Think that it used the ususal RLM76 for undersides and sides and different greys for the complicated striping and mottling....
Too bad, that I can't find a proper profile to show you. I know that I've seen a "Yellow 10" JG54 '109E somewhere...! Oh well....
Hope that this pic will explain better...
Too bad, that I can't find a proper profile to show you. I know that I've seen a "Yellow 10" JG54 '109E somewhere...! Oh well....
Hope that this pic will explain better...
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Lucky13
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Lucky13
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True Wojtek....couldn't find a pic of an E... Nice pics and profiles buddy! Thanks! 
Nice pics and profiles buddy! Thanks!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Done a little digging Jan, and come up with this.
The striped camouflage on the BoB Bf109E's was originally painted over the 'winterised' RLM 65 Hellblau sides, in green. Later, the Geshwader were among the first to use RLM 76 in place of the Hellblau, and the stripes started to become more of a criss-cross pattern. It is POSSIBLE that this was an official experiment, although it could have been a unit exercise, that eventually led to the crossed, striped mottle later seen on the Eastern Front.
At the same time that the Geshwader started usaing the original 'stripes', during the later stages of the BoB, JG53 also began using RLM 76, and a number of different patterns of mottle, patches, overspray etc, using RLM 74 and 75. It is generally believed that THIS was an official experiment into more effective camouflage patterns and colours, although no proof has yet been found.
BTW, if they are any use to you, I have the decals for the jabo Stab machine <I 5 +, including the shield badge, in 1/48th scale. They were included on the Hasegawa 'Emil' decal sheet, and I doubt I'll use them.
The striped camouflage on the BoB Bf109E's was originally painted over the 'winterised' RLM 65 Hellblau sides, in green. Later, the Geshwader were among the first to use RLM 76 in place of the Hellblau, and the stripes started to become more of a criss-cross pattern. It is POSSIBLE that this was an official experiment, although it could have been a unit exercise, that eventually led to the crossed, striped mottle later seen on the Eastern Front.
At the same time that the Geshwader started usaing the original 'stripes', during the later stages of the BoB, JG53 also began using RLM 76, and a number of different patterns of mottle, patches, overspray etc, using RLM 74 and 75. It is generally believed that THIS was an official experiment into more effective camouflage patterns and colours, although no proof has yet been found.
BTW, if they are any use to you, I have the decals for the jabo Stab machine <I 5 +, including the shield badge, in 1/48th scale. They were included on the Hasegawa 'Emil' decal sheet, and I doubt I'll use them.
What is the difference between his confusing G-6's, the /R6 and the /R6 Trop, is it just the tropical airfilter? Because the = and the ~ keeps being referred to as an G-6/R6 and an G-6/R6 Trop respectively.....
The R6 refers to the under wing 20mm Cannons....Trop for filter yet it is not shown in profiles...but the inflight pic looks to be fitted?
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- #195
Lucky13
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Thanks gentlemen, much obliged! Would like to try this camouflage out for a challange, it's d*mn tempting to say the least 
! Now I only need to find a "13"....
! Now I only need to find a "13"....
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Sweet pics fellas, great reference materials......
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- #197
Lucky13
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- #199
Lucky13
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Just read that Leutnant Josef Eberle disappeared over the channel 9th of September '40, is that right, is he still MIA?
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Lucky13
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Another one... "White 13" Bf 109G-14 (Wk.Nr.?????)
Unteroffizier Herbert Maxis, Nellingen, 1945....any info?
Unteroffizier Herbert Maxis, Nellingen, 1945....any info?
