13's.... (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Lucky13
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Thanks Wojtek!
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- #204
Lucky13
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Most fantastic photo Wayne, much obliged! Any idea why he was shot, did climb out with weapon in his hand or was it just as it says a tragic accident?
Thanks again Wayne, buddy!
Thanks again Wayne, buddy!
Have to dig out the info, but I think he had been straffing American troops...shot down....climbed out of the cockpit and was shot....
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- #206
Lucky13
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Well, I take it that it could be reason enough....
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Nice pic Chris! Just think, if a dump like that could be found today......
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- #209
Lucky13
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You mean like my own backyard? 
Yellow 13 was an Fw190F-8 W.Nr. 582304 there are a few pics around of this aircraft...
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- #211
Lucky13
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Does it mention who the pilot was and JG?
Pilot is unknown, the unit is mentioned as SG 10.
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- #213
Lucky13
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SG, as in "Schlachtgeschwader"?
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- #214
Lucky13
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Is there any pics on the Bf 109G-6/AS that Walter Oseau was shot down and KIA in 13? Have popsted a smaller profile in this thread, but to me it's a bit fishy....
While the Geschwaderkommodore of JG 1 he frequently received his share of Hermann Göring's frustration over the failure to beat off the Allied bomber offensive. Göring was very unhappy and questioned the commitment of Geschwaderkommodore that were not flying regularly and leading their respective units. There was an automatic ban on further combat flying by Oesau since his 100th kill. He ignored the ban and continued to lead missions. It was probably lifted temporarily or bypassed when he was appointed Geschwaderkommodore of JG 1.
He added several victories over American heavy bombers in the first five months of 1944. On 11 May 1944 one thousand U.S. heavy bombers from Eighth Air Force attacked railway targets in Eastern France and North East Belgium. They were escorted by even more numbers of P-38 and P-51 fighters. Oesau was in bed with influenza. Upon hearing the news, Göring phoned Oesau's staff...
Göring – "Is the Kommodore flying?"
Staff – "No, he is in bed with fever."
Göring – "Yes, yes, I know that kind", said Göring scornfully,
Göring – "he has also turned tired and coward!"
Angered by this comment, Oesau mounted his Bf 109 G-6/AS "Green 13" (Wk. Nr. 20601) and took off from Paderborn despite a high fever. He was leading three aircraft of the Geschwaderstab to intercept the Allied bombers. The schwarm broke formation over the Ardennes as it approached the bombers. In the dogfight Oesau's wingman reported damage to his machine and he was ordered to break off the engagement. Thus left alone, Oesau faced 4 P-38s and possibly P-51s as well. According to Major Hartmann Grasser the Gruppenkommandeur of III./JG 1, who was on the same mission, recalled that there were five P-38s facing Oesau.
What soon followed is unclear as there are several versions. Oesau was chased by 1st Lt. James Leslie Doyle, 1st Lt. Wilbur L. Jarvis III and 1st Lt. James C. Austin, of the Green Flight led by Doyle of 428th Fighter Squadron (474th FG, 9th AF). All three were experienced pilots and chased Oesau from 28,000 feet to tree-top level. In the ensuing 20 minute dogfight, Oesau defended skillfully, though his aircraft was damaged by gunfire. While attempting an emergency landing, his Gustav received a final burst of fire in the cockpit area and crashed into the ground 6 miles south west of St. Vith. His body was thrown clear of the aircraft some yards away.
According to the "Eighth Air Force Mission Folder for 11 May 1944, Mission 351", Lt. Doyle engaged in a turning dogfight with a pair of Bf 109s, scoring hits on the leader. Doyle had then broken off combat without claiming a kill, unaware that his victim, Oesau, had been killed by a 20 mm shell. Doyle's kill had been the first kill of the 474th Fighter Group in its first combat with the Luftwaffe. There is some dispute regarding who exactly shot down his fighter. Some sources claim that he was shot during the dogfight and while the aircraft was falling to the ground, he was shot at again a few feet above ground, possibly by the Mustangs of 354th FG. Other sources claim he was shot down by Doyle. Lt Wilbur Jarvis, No. 2 in the flight led by Doyle received a Damaged credit (not a kill) for Oesau's aircraft. Doyle noted bullet damage in the cockpit area and his gun camera footage showed that it was Oesau's Green 13. German records of the time indicated that his death was caused by an explosive shell in the cockpit, his body having several bullet wounds. Later an image from the Gun camera was published (without caption) that purportedly showed Oesau's aircraft from the right side.
Oesau was aged 30 at the time of his death. He had a total of 127 kills gained over 300 missions. 27 were Spitfires, 14 four-engined bombers, 44 were scored on the Eastern front and 9 in the Spanish Civil War. In recognition of his record and his fame, a rare honor was bestowed and JG 1 received the title Oesau in honor of its fallen Geschwaderkommodore. Only Werner Mölders had a similar honor with JG 51 Mölders.
While the Geschwaderkommodore of JG 1 he frequently received his share of Hermann Göring's frustration over the failure to beat off the Allied bomber offensive. Göring was very unhappy and questioned the commitment of Geschwaderkommodore that were not flying regularly and leading their respective units. There was an automatic ban on further combat flying by Oesau since his 100th kill. He ignored the ban and continued to lead missions. It was probably lifted temporarily or bypassed when he was appointed Geschwaderkommodore of JG 1.
He added several victories over American heavy bombers in the first five months of 1944. On 11 May 1944 one thousand U.S. heavy bombers from Eighth Air Force attacked railway targets in Eastern France and North East Belgium. They were escorted by even more numbers of P-38 and P-51 fighters. Oesau was in bed with influenza. Upon hearing the news, Göring phoned Oesau's staff...
Göring – "Is the Kommodore flying?"
Staff – "No, he is in bed with fever."
Göring – "Yes, yes, I know that kind", said Göring scornfully,
Göring – "he has also turned tired and coward!"
Angered by this comment, Oesau mounted his Bf 109 G-6/AS "Green 13" (Wk. Nr. 20601) and took off from Paderborn despite a high fever. He was leading three aircraft of the Geschwaderstab to intercept the Allied bombers. The schwarm broke formation over the Ardennes as it approached the bombers. In the dogfight Oesau's wingman reported damage to his machine and he was ordered to break off the engagement. Thus left alone, Oesau faced 4 P-38s and possibly P-51s as well. According to Major Hartmann Grasser the Gruppenkommandeur of III./JG 1, who was on the same mission, recalled that there were five P-38s facing Oesau.
What soon followed is unclear as there are several versions. Oesau was chased by 1st Lt. James Leslie Doyle, 1st Lt. Wilbur L. Jarvis III and 1st Lt. James C. Austin, of the Green Flight led by Doyle of 428th Fighter Squadron (474th FG, 9th AF). All three were experienced pilots and chased Oesau from 28,000 feet to tree-top level. In the ensuing 20 minute dogfight, Oesau defended skillfully, though his aircraft was damaged by gunfire. While attempting an emergency landing, his Gustav received a final burst of fire in the cockpit area and crashed into the ground 6 miles south west of St. Vith. His body was thrown clear of the aircraft some yards away.
According to the "Eighth Air Force Mission Folder for 11 May 1944, Mission 351", Lt. Doyle engaged in a turning dogfight with a pair of Bf 109s, scoring hits on the leader. Doyle had then broken off combat without claiming a kill, unaware that his victim, Oesau, had been killed by a 20 mm shell. Doyle's kill had been the first kill of the 474th Fighter Group in its first combat with the Luftwaffe. There is some dispute regarding who exactly shot down his fighter. Some sources claim that he was shot during the dogfight and while the aircraft was falling to the ground, he was shot at again a few feet above ground, possibly by the Mustangs of 354th FG. Other sources claim he was shot down by Doyle. Lt Wilbur Jarvis, No. 2 in the flight led by Doyle received a Damaged credit (not a kill) for Oesau's aircraft. Doyle noted bullet damage in the cockpit area and his gun camera footage showed that it was Oesau's Green 13. German records of the time indicated that his death was caused by an explosive shell in the cockpit, his body having several bullet wounds. Later an image from the Gun camera was published (without caption) that purportedly showed Oesau's aircraft from the right side.
Oesau was aged 30 at the time of his death. He had a total of 127 kills gained over 300 missions. 27 were Spitfires, 14 four-engined bombers, 44 were scored on the Eastern front and 9 in the Spanish Civil War. In recognition of his record and his fame, a rare honor was bestowed and JG 1 received the title Oesau in honor of its fallen Geschwaderkommodore. Only Werner Mölders had a similar honor with JG 51 Mölders.
SG, as in "Schlachtgeschwader"?
Yes.
Is there any pics on the Bf 109G-6/AS that Walter Oseau was shot down and KIA in 13? Have popsted a smaller profile in this thread, but to me it's a bit fishy....
Yes there is one from gun camera footage.
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Found some loss data for you Lucky....
30.12.41 1. / JG 2 Bf 109 E-7 WNr. 7676 Failed to return from sortie: Weisse 13+ Lt. Kurt Mayer
14.05.43 3./JG 5 Missing Bf 109G-2 10331 Gelbe 13 Uffz. Arnold Koch (F) Killed
10.08.43 7./JG 5 Shoot down by a P-39 Bf 109G-2 10406 Weisse 13 Uffz. Alfred Leipersberger (F) Missing
18.12.43 12./JG 5 Mellom Bergen og Bremanger FW 190A-3 5500 Gelbe 13 Uffz. Paul Fleischhauer (F) Missing
26.09.44 11./JG 5 Bf 109 G2 14630 25 km south of Ekerøy Shoot down Gelbe 13+ Uffz Heinrich Plaum
23.12.44 I./JG 77 Bf 109 G14 512430 (blaue 13) Uffz. Erich Barthel
23.12.44 II./JG 11 Bf 109 G14 785599 (gelbe 13) Ofhr. Erhard Rösner
23.12.44 III./JG 4 Bf 109 K4 330329 (schwarze 13) Uffz. Hans Lemmer
23.12.44 IV./JG 27 Bf 109 G10 130359 (gelbe 13) Uffz. Heinz Bartels
30.12.41 1. / JG 2 Bf 109 E-7 WNr. 7676 Failed to return from sortie: Weisse 13+ Lt. Kurt Mayer
14.05.43 3./JG 5 Missing Bf 109G-2 10331 Gelbe 13 Uffz. Arnold Koch (F) Killed
10.08.43 7./JG 5 Shoot down by a P-39 Bf 109G-2 10406 Weisse 13 Uffz. Alfred Leipersberger (F) Missing
18.12.43 12./JG 5 Mellom Bergen og Bremanger FW 190A-3 5500 Gelbe 13 Uffz. Paul Fleischhauer (F) Missing
26.09.44 11./JG 5 Bf 109 G2 14630 25 km south of Ekerøy Shoot down Gelbe 13+ Uffz Heinrich Plaum
23.12.44 I./JG 77 Bf 109 G14 512430 (blaue 13) Uffz. Erich Barthel
23.12.44 II./JG 11 Bf 109 G14 785599 (gelbe 13) Ofhr. Erhard Rösner
23.12.44 III./JG 4 Bf 109 K4 330329 (schwarze 13) Uffz. Hans Lemmer
23.12.44 IV./JG 27 Bf 109 G10 130359 (gelbe 13) Uffz. Heinz Bartels
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- #218
Lucky13
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Great stuff Chris and Wojtek, VERY much appreciated!
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- #220
Lucky13
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So, is it correct that it was an all RLM76 or something then, and "Green 13"? That's the profiles that I've seen, somewhat small though.
Cheers a bunch Wayne, appreciated!
Cheers a bunch Wayne, appreciated!
