A-Bombing Germany

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but that's what this topic's about, what would they use, it still think it would be the lancaster....................

 

[cheddar cheese]

no he b29 is far more suitable for the job 8)

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

why?, the lancaster had the range and payload to do it................

 

[Crazy]

So did the B-29. Plus, the Superfortress was already being equipped to drop the A-bomb.




Besides, it was an American bomb, you think we'd just hand it over to the British? No offence to the lads across the pond, but it just seems unlikely 8)

 

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, but it wasn't specifically designed and built JUST to drop the A-bomb.- In fact the B-29 had major teething-troubles and was built to supercede the tired B-17 as a high-altitude bomber, hence the pressurisation from concept.- It was in the Pacific theatre because since Doolittle's raid, they needed such a bomber to raid Japan.- They still couldn't bomb Japan to it's knees, so a total of 46 were modified at Omaha,[based on an early-model configured at Wright Airfield in '43], and was known as the 509th Composite Group.- Also, it was British Intelligence that alerted the US to Germanys deuterium oxide production, which was soon destroyed by British Commandos Bombers- The British were involved in research that led to Project Manhatten, and that's why G/C Leonard Cheshire VC, Britain's Top Bomber-pilot was up at 39,000ft in 'Bock's Car' when the 2nd A-bomb sailed down on Nagasaki ...

 

[Crazy]

Yeah, but it wasn't specifically designed and built JUST to drop the A-bomb.- In fact the B-29 had major teething-troubles and was built to supercede the tired B-17 as a high-altitude bomber, hence the pressurisation from concept.- It was in the Pacific theatre because since Doolittle's raid, they needed such a bomber to raid Japan.- They still couldn't bomb Japan to it's knees, so a total of 46 were modified at Omaha,[based on an early-model configured at Wright Airfield in '43], and was known as the 509th Composite Group.- Also, it was British Intelligence that alerted the US to Germanys deuterium oxide production, which was soon destroyed by British Commandos Bombers- The British were involved in research that led to Project Manhatten, and that's why G/C Leonard Cheshire VC, Britain's Top Bomber-pilot was up at 39,000ft in 'Bock's Car' when the 2nd A-bomb sailed down on Nagasaki ...

Roger that, I simply meant that they were already modifying the B-29 to accomodate the A-bombs

 

[MP-Willow]

Genhose, great info about the British help with Manhatten Project, but as for that being the reason for the Brit being the Box Car pilot I do not. It was given to him by the top USAAF pilot who also flew the Horoshima mission. The Nagasaki raid was messed up from the start and almost was a compleate loss.

As for The USAAF using Lancasters they did fly them in the early part of the war, yes? We could have just said that they were some traids for the B-24s that the RAF had. But I an not shure the Lancs would be able to make the runs in daylight and survive.8)

 

[Gemhorse]

G/C Leonard Cheshire [3x DSO; DFC, VC] having just recently tour-expired from 617 Sqn. was sent by Prime Minister Atlee [via Field-Marshal Sir Henry Maitland,] to the Marianas specifically to 'work with the USAAF' and see the new 'Allied' weapon in action, considering he was in command of the other 'biggest' bombs dropped, prior to the A-bomb, the 10,000lb' Tallboy's and 22.000lb 'Grand Slam's, over Germany. - The A-Bombs were a product of British Research and All the incredible Laboratory Industrial wealth of the USA...' a combined effort.' ..- If the B-29 HADN'T been available, I'M sure that the Lancaster COULD'VE been converted to fly at high-alttitude and deliver the A-Bombs...they were allocated to be part of 'Tiger Force' in late '44, to go over to fight against Japan after Germany was defeated, but I don't think this transpired...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

lancs could do it, and they would't have had to strip off the turrets, it could take a 9,000lb bomb easily, and it wouldn't take long to modify a lanc, if they did the mission at day, lancasters were already making daylight raids towards the end of the war, as the germans could offer very little fighter opposition, and if the USAAF was so worried, send a couple of 'stangs with them, and what's stoping you doing the raid at night, we had systems that could guide you to the target, so i dont see why not.....................

 

[plan_D]

They wanted to record it, bombing at night wouldn't show much except a huge flash. You wouldn't see the cloud afterwards.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

fair point, would look pretty cool seeing it at night (as far as dropping bombs are concerned, i realise there's nothing cool about having to drop an Atom bomb................)

 

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, I don't really think A-Bombing Germany was on the cards...there was definate Intelligence Work devoted to keeping tabs on Hitler's Heavy-Water programme, and taking that out; - After that it was V1's 2's...- 1943 was the toughest-years for the RAF 8th Air Force, breaking-in the Daylight Night Bombing; what was being learned respectively of the B-17 went into the B-29's development; the Lancaster's into specialist bombing requiring serious modifications, the later Lancaster models in 1945 leaves me feeling that if required, they could have 'done the deed.'

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

thank you, it would have been picked, what's the point in sending over a whole new plane to do it when you already have thousands of planes that would do it better...............

 

[Lightning Guy]

Does anyone thing race could have played into it? The Germans might not have been liked, but the Allies did consider them human (well, the Western Allies anyway). Could the fact that the Japanese were generally considered less-than-human have played a part in the decision to drop the bomb on them? I don't know just thought it might be a point to consider.

 

[plan_D]

No, you have to remember back then they didn't look at Nuclear bombs as we do today. Then it was just a huge bomb, they didn't know anything of radiation poisoning or any of the after effects. As I said it was just a huge bomb.
I really thing there were three reasons, 1) to save lives of millions of Americans (the Japanese had estimated 14 million militia ready to defend Japan, plus the civilians would be fighting every inch) 2) revenge for Pearl Harbour and their treatment of POWs 3) testing purposes, as Japan closer to America, and it would have been easier transporting the Atom bombs for bombing Japan instead of Germany.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I'm not saying the race was the factor, just wondering if it might have played in. I think using the bomb over Japan definitely saved lives (American AND Japanese) and I think the people who feel an invasion would have cause fewer casualities should take a closer look at battles like Okinawa and Iwo Jima (where casualities for the Americans ran to the 1,000s and for the Japense to the 10,000s).

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

as Japan closer to America

no it's not, the bomb was produced in new york (hence the manhatten project) which is closed to brittian..........

 

[plan_D]

Well they wouldn't transport it straight over the Atlantic, the transport route went north along the coast of America, into Canada, over Greenland, into Iceland then into Britain. It would have been quicker going to Japan.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

good point............

 

[Gemhorse]

Yes, but I definately believe there was never any intention to use the A-Bomb on Germany - There were other country's all around it, whereas Japan are islands. - Also, they didn't necessarily believe then, that the A-Bomb drop on Japan would still finish them off...- We've been watching a colour- filmed doco on TV, [down here in NZ, with the Anzac Anniversary on at present,]... of Anzacs, never seen before, and of interest, they built a tower on a Pacific island and stacked 500 tons of TNT on it - The awesome resulting blast and devastation was like a post-nuke strike, and troop-training was carried-out in the blasted-trees site afterwards, as a type of simulation of entering such a situation, as a Mop-up Exercise....We generally know now that the Jap A-Bomb blasts were equivalent to 20,000 tons of TNT going-off, but what was apparent in the doco, was that they didn't know then, that radiation was a secondary killer...I also believe that 'race' may well have been a factor - To the Allies, after WWI, and then into WWII, no-one had fought in such an unprovoked and vicious manner, with total contempt for War Conventions, as the Japanese had - plus the prospect of continuing Kamakazi attacks through to the bitter-end...the Japanese were despised, far more so than the Germans - I know of many Anzacs and ex-POW's of the Pacific/Burma War, who HATE the 'barbaric' Japanese STILL, because of the atrocities and indignities they perpetrated 60 odd years ago....and I'll bet you'll find plenty of American ex-GI's who feel the same today too...[even though the 'healing process' is well under way]. - Finally, I always thought the 'Bombs' were made and tested [in total secrecy] at Almagorda, New Mexico...