Wildcat
Major
I think they're fantastic, very professional. Just a shame they use the PC-9 and not something more "sexy" such as F/A 18's.
Best Aerobatic Team?
- Thread starter cheddar cheese
- Start date
- Status
I think they're fantastic, very professional. Just a shame they use the PC-9 and not something more "sexy" such as F/A 18's.
Desert Fox
Senior Airman
That is true, I reckon the F/A 18 is a damn fine plane. The Wide Bay International Air Show is on in Bundaberg QLD, Australia on the 3 4 5 August. I'll have to double check my facts, but I think the Roulettes are appearing.
davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
I had to vote for the Blue Angels even though I was an AF guy. From a the time I was a kid I would watch them practice from my back yard and fly over my house to make a landing. First I remember the F9Fs, then the F11Fs, the F-4s, A-4s, and finally the F-18s. The is much more polished now and the flying appears tighter and manuevers more impressive. The F-18, I think, made a big difference.
I am sure they are all great, but Blues have my heart.
I am sure they are all great, but Blues have my heart.
ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
The group from Canada.... Quite good, I might add.
Charles
Charles
alexyflemming
Banned
- 28
- Aug 11, 2009
TURKISH STARS IS THE ONLY AEROBATIC TEAM IN THE WORLD WITH 8 SUPERSONIC NF5 AIRCRAFT.
Turkish Stars is performing their air shows with 900 kms/h. If you watch some Turkish Stars air show, then you will feel that the others is LIKE SLOW MOTION.
Best tight formations and manuevres are presented by Turkish Stars till now.
The BEST AEROBATIC SHOW IN THE WORLD TILL NOW IS:
Turkish Stars - (AirPower09 Zeltweg Austria 2009)
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24
After watching this video, you can see that the aerobatic teams of other countries CANNOT BE IN THE SAME CLASS WITH TURKISH STARS. There are GIANT DIFFERENCE with TURKISH STARS and the OTHERS.
Turkish Stars is performing their air shows with 900 kms/h. If you watch some Turkish Stars air show, then you will feel that the others is LIKE SLOW MOTION.
Best tight formations and manuevres are presented by Turkish Stars till now.
The BEST AEROBATIC SHOW IN THE WORLD TILL NOW IS:
Turkish Stars - (AirPower09 Zeltweg Austria 2009)
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24
After watching this video, you can see that the aerobatic teams of other countries CANNOT BE IN THE SAME CLASS WITH TURKISH STARS. There are GIANT DIFFERENCE with TURKISH STARS and the OTHERS.
Bucksnort101
1st Lieutenant
I always liked the Red Baron Squadron in thier Super Stearmans, but they have been mothballed.
If you ever have a chance to see John Mohr doing aerobatics in a vintage 1943 Stearman I would suggest you do so. What he does in that aircraft is simple amazing!
If you ever have a chance to see John Mohr doing aerobatics in a vintage 1943 Stearman I would suggest you do so. What he does in that aircraft is simple amazing!
I would take the Blue Angels or the Thunderbirds over them anyday. Don't take me wrong, the Stars are great (all of the teams are), but having seen most of the worlds teams at airshows, no one compares to the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds.
By the way the Turkish Stars are not the only team flying Supersonic aircraft...
Messy1
Master Sergeant
I have only seen the Thunderbirds back in the late 80's at a airshow in Des Moines. My pop always told me the Blue Angels were better than the T-birds, always said the B.A's flew tighter, more technical maneuvers. I would love to be able to judge them all by first hand accounts though, means I would be at a lot of shows!
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
There were 2 CF5 teams up here called the 434 Schooner Bluenosers and 419 Rut Zulus albeit they were unofficial , however they did put on one of the best lo flying displays I've ever witnessed they came over inverted and you could almost read the instruments
alexyflemming
Banned
- 28
- Aug 11, 2009
alexyflemming
Banned
- 28
- Aug 11, 2009
*: Proof:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24 (Best Aerobatic Show of the world by the Best Aerobatic Team of the World)
COMPARISON OF FRECCE TRICOLORI TURKISH STARS
Frecce Tricolori use Aermacchi MB-339 PAN (max speed: 898 km/h; NOT SUPERSONIC) whereas Turkish Stars use NF5 (max speed: 1700 km/h; SUPERSONIC). If one watches 4 or 5 videos of Turkish Stars first and then s/he watches Frecce Tricolori, s/he feels as if s/he is watching A SLOW MOTION VIDEO; s/he cannot endure to watch 1-minute video of Frecce Tricolori since HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY CANNOT ENDURE A SLOW MOTION VIDEO OF MORE THAN 1-MINUTE. COMPARING TURKISH STARS AND FRECCE TRICOLORI is like COMPARING HORSE AND DONKEY.
COMPARISON OF RED ARROWS TURKISH STARS
Red Arrows use Hawk T1A (max speed: 1037 km/h; NOT SUPERSONIC) whereas Turkish Stars use NF5 (max speed: 1700 km/h; SUPERSONIC). If one watches 4 or 5 videos of Turkish Stars first and then s/he watches Red Arrows, s/he feels as if s/he is watching A SLOW MOTION VIDEO; s/he cannot endure to watch 1-minute video of Red Arrows since HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY CANNOT ENDURE A SLOW MOTION VIDEO OF MORE THAN 1-MINUTE. COMPARING TURKISH STARS AND RED ARROWS is like COMPARING HORSE AND DONKEY.
Also, (anyway, for those who wish to see a small comparison):
Look at the videos of BOTH Red Arrows and Turkish Stars to see the difference:
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2 :
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24
Red Arrows :
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qT3J-knLSY
COMPARISON OF THUNDERBIRDS TURKISH STARS
Turkish Stars is the only aerobatic team of the world that can make tight helix climbing!
Variants (Matrix, Tight helix climbing etc. as well as Delta, Victor, Diamond, etc.) of Turkish Stars is richer than the Thunderbirds (Classics: Delta, Victor, Diamond, etc.)
A. Tightness:
Thunderbirds' tightness is bad when compared to that of Turkish Stars:
Thunderbirds:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24 (video)
B. Number of Supersonic Jets:
Both are Supersonic whereas Turkish Stars fly with 8 jets, Thunderbirds fly with 6 jets.
C. Mirror image:
Thunderbirds: There is a SMALL distance to the mirror:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24 (video)
B. Number of Supersonic Jets:
Both are Supersonic whereas Turkish Stars fly with 8 jets, Blue Angels fly with 6 jets.
C. Discipline:
UN-disciplined Blue Angels (of US Army) versus ULTRA-disciplined Turkish Stars (of Turkish Army):
On October 30, 2008 a spokesman for Blue Angels announced that the team would complete its last three performances of the year with five jets instead of six. The change was because one pilot and another officer in the organization had been removed from duty for engaging in an "inappropriate relationship". The Navy stated that one of the individuals was a man and the other a woman, one a Marine and the other from the Navy, and that Rear Admiral Mark Guadagnini, chief of Naval air training, was reviewing the situation. At the next performance at Lackland Air Force Base following the announcement the #4 or slot pilot, was absent from the formation. A spokesman for the team would not confirm the identity of the pilot removed from the team. On November 6, 2008 both officers were found guilty at an admiral's mast on unspecified charges but the resulting punishment was not disclosed.
D. Mirror image:
Blue Angels: There is a SMALL distance to the mirror:
Turkish Stars: There is a NO distance to the mirror (though Turkish Stars photo is more zoomed if compared to Thunderbirds!), still there is close distance to the mirror for Turkish Stars if compared to the Thunderbirds):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Turkish_Stars.jpg
http://www.turkyildizlari.hvkk.mil.tr/dosyalar/tersduz2.jpg
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24 (Best Aerobatic Show of the world by the Best Aerobatic Team of the World)
COMPARISON OF FRECCE TRICOLORI TURKISH STARS
Frecce Tricolori use Aermacchi MB-339 PAN (max speed: 898 km/h; NOT SUPERSONIC) whereas Turkish Stars use NF5 (max speed: 1700 km/h; SUPERSONIC). If one watches 4 or 5 videos of Turkish Stars first and then s/he watches Frecce Tricolori, s/he feels as if s/he is watching A SLOW MOTION VIDEO; s/he cannot endure to watch 1-minute video of Frecce Tricolori since HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY CANNOT ENDURE A SLOW MOTION VIDEO OF MORE THAN 1-MINUTE. COMPARING TURKISH STARS AND FRECCE TRICOLORI is like COMPARING HORSE AND DONKEY.
COMPARISON OF RED ARROWS TURKISH STARS
Red Arrows use Hawk T1A (max speed: 1037 km/h; NOT SUPERSONIC) whereas Turkish Stars use NF5 (max speed: 1700 km/h; SUPERSONIC). If one watches 4 or 5 videos of Turkish Stars first and then s/he watches Red Arrows, s/he feels as if s/he is watching A SLOW MOTION VIDEO; s/he cannot endure to watch 1-minute video of Red Arrows since HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY CANNOT ENDURE A SLOW MOTION VIDEO OF MORE THAN 1-MINUTE. COMPARING TURKISH STARS AND RED ARROWS is like COMPARING HORSE AND DONKEY.
Also, (anyway, for those who wish to see a small comparison):
Look at the videos of BOTH Red Arrows and Turkish Stars to see the difference:
AirPower09 Day 1 F 53 Tiger Turkish Stars Part.2 :
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24
Red Arrows :
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qT3J-knLSY
COMPARISON OF THUNDERBIRDS TURKISH STARS
Turkish Stars is the only aerobatic team of the world that can make tight helix climbing!
Variants (Matrix, Tight helix climbing etc. as well as Delta, Victor, Diamond, etc.) of Turkish Stars is richer than the Thunderbirds (Classics: Delta, Victor, Diamond, etc.)
A. Tightness:
Thunderbirds' tightness is bad when compared to that of Turkish Stars:
Thunderbirds:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24 (video)
B. Number of Supersonic Jets:
Both are Supersonic whereas Turkish Stars fly with 8 jets, Thunderbirds fly with 6 jets.
C. Mirror image:
Thunderbirds: There is a SMALL distance to the mirror:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_gWkKxFT24 (video)
B. Number of Supersonic Jets:
Both are Supersonic whereas Turkish Stars fly with 8 jets, Blue Angels fly with 6 jets.
C. Discipline:
UN-disciplined Blue Angels (of US Army) versus ULTRA-disciplined Turkish Stars (of Turkish Army):
On October 30, 2008 a spokesman for Blue Angels announced that the team would complete its last three performances of the year with five jets instead of six. The change was because one pilot and another officer in the organization had been removed from duty for engaging in an "inappropriate relationship". The Navy stated that one of the individuals was a man and the other a woman, one a Marine and the other from the Navy, and that Rear Admiral Mark Guadagnini, chief of Naval air training, was reviewing the situation. At the next performance at Lackland Air Force Base following the announcement the #4 or slot pilot, was absent from the formation. A spokesman for the team would not confirm the identity of the pilot removed from the team. On November 6, 2008 both officers were found guilty at an admiral's mast on unspecified charges but the resulting punishment was not disclosed.
D. Mirror image:
Blue Angels: There is a SMALL distance to the mirror:
Turkish Stars: There is a NO distance to the mirror (though Turkish Stars photo is more zoomed if compared to Thunderbirds!), still there is close distance to the mirror for Turkish Stars if compared to the Thunderbirds):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Turkish_Stars.jpg
http://www.turkyildizlari.hvkk.mil.tr/dosyalar/tersduz2.jpg
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Gee that chart looks real official - who made it?? It also seems to be missing some data to support a rational discussion. And who is making the flying critique - you? Are you a rated pilot who performed in airshows?
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Messy1
Master Sergeant
And exactly how does this explain why the Turkish Stars are the best?
The second chart is missing data for everyone but the Turkish Stars.
Just curious.
The second chart is missing data for everyone but the Turkish Stars.
Just curious.
imalko
Chief Master Sergeant
Unfortunatelly, I have to admit that I haven't seen any of the aerobatic teams listed above so I can not vote them. Only aerobatic team I have seen are Serbian "Stars" aerobatic team which is formed from retired military pilots, most of whom once were members of former "Flying stars" aerobatic team of Yugoslav AF. This team ceased to exist after their G-4 Super Galebs were destroyed in NATO bombing in 1999.
Hopefully, I will see Frecce Tricolory soon, since it was said they will participate at Batajnica Air Show in Serbia in September this year.
Hopefully, I will see Frecce Tricolory soon, since it was said they will participate at Batajnica Air Show in Serbia in September this year.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I've seen the Blue Angels, Frecce Tricolori, Red Arrows, Thunderbirds, and Snowbirds. All the teams get better as the air show season progresses. Each team brings a uniqueness that is based on the performance of their aircraft and the format of their show.
With that said, and F-5 IS NOT a friendly aircraft in slow flight. It cannot maneuver like an F-15, 18 or even an Su 27.
Have you ever seen a show briefed and planned? You're criticizing some of the maneuvers without knowing the dimensions of the show track and the altitude of the hard deck. The fact that one team has more aircraft in its display than another is just rubbish as is the "tightness of their turns."
Mirrior Image? Do you relize that each team establishes guidlines on how close they will get based on aircraft performance, speed and altitude? And with that said the only way you're ever going to really measure that is to fly along side of them and get a straight on perspective.
The true measure of an aerobatic display team is how they perform their show based on the briefed plan. Some look better than others in certain situations but as stated all bring a uniqueness based on their aircraft and the maneuvers they could safely do.
Accidents rates? More rubbish - look at the accident rates of each team based on shows, sorties flown and numbers of years in existence and you'll get a true measure of the team's performance.
Oh and let's not forget - have a critique done by a rated pilot (more than one preferably) who has participated n such a show and then there is room for comparison. At that point you could start filling the open squares in your chart.
And bringing up poor behavior is more rubbish. Perhaps those offiers who were disciplined (the story was offered up by the US Navy, we have transparancy in our military when things like this happen) will now go golfing with General Babaoğlu.
With that said, and F-5 IS NOT a friendly aircraft in slow flight. It cannot maneuver like an F-15, 18 or even an Su 27.
Have you ever seen a show briefed and planned? You're criticizing some of the maneuvers without knowing the dimensions of the show track and the altitude of the hard deck. The fact that one team has more aircraft in its display than another is just rubbish as is the "tightness of their turns."
Mirrior Image? Do you relize that each team establishes guidlines on how close they will get based on aircraft performance, speed and altitude? And with that said the only way you're ever going to really measure that is to fly along side of them and get a straight on perspective.
The true measure of an aerobatic display team is how they perform their show based on the briefed plan. Some look better than others in certain situations but as stated all bring a uniqueness based on their aircraft and the maneuvers they could safely do.
Accidents rates? More rubbish - look at the accident rates of each team based on shows, sorties flown and numbers of years in existence and you'll get a true measure of the team's performance.
Oh and let's not forget - have a critique done by a rated pilot (more than one preferably) who has participated n such a show and then there is room for comparison. At that point you could start filling the open squares in your chart.
And bringing up poor behavior is more rubbish. Perhaps those offiers who were disciplined (the story was offered up by the US Navy, we have transparancy in our military when things like this happen) will now go golfing with General Babaoğlu.
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ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
I'm curious as to where the chart originated.... who made it ?? Strange how so many blocks are empty.
Charles
Charles
Flyboy2
Senior Airman
I voted for the Thunderbirds, partly because they are based in Las Vegas! 
I love being outside during practice at school before an air show cause you can see them practicing out by Nellis
I love being outside during practice at school before an air show cause you can see them practicing out by Nellis
Messy1
Master Sergeant
That would be cool FB2!
I don't buy your information.
Why?
1. The chart is nothing official. Looks like you made it on a spread sheet.
2. You omitted so much information in the chart, and only added what you needed to prove your point. Kind of pointless huh?
3. Your comparisons are your opinion. While I respect that, they are not fact. They are your opinion and your opinion alone. Nothing else.
Oh and by the way, you said the Blue Angels were of the US Army. They are not of the US Army. They are the US Navy....
Also I would like to know your qualifications in making your "judgments".
Why?
1. The chart is nothing official. Looks like you made it on a spread sheet.
2. You omitted so much information in the chart, and only added what you needed to prove your point. Kind of pointless huh?
3. Your comparisons are your opinion. While I respect that, they are not fact. They are your opinion and your opinion alone. Nothing else.
Oh and by the way, you said the Blue Angels were of the US Army. They are not of the US Army. They are the US Navy....
Also I would like to know your qualifications in making your "judgments".
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alexyflemming
Banned
- 28
- Aug 11, 2009
1.
The truth of analises were proven: Turkish Stars make better maneuvers than the teams having F-15, F-18, Su 27! (tightness, close mirror image,...). There are approximately 130 reasons why NF5 jets are the best jets for airshows.
2.
3.
Forming the BLOCK with 8 jets is HARDER THAN forming the BLOCK with 6 jets! One cannot turn tightly in safe feelings when the number increases!
4.
ALSO: Members of Turkish Stars are elected from F-16 squadrons of Turkish Air Force (F-16 that ThunderBirds uses!). Members of Turkish Stars performed "<1 meter mirror image" with F-16s as well when they are in F-16 squadrons. So, the ABSENCE of "<1 meter mirror image" of ThunderBirds comes from NOT the potential of the jet they use, but the capability they have (more truly, they do NOT have)!
5.
6. Filling the open squares in the chart:
NOT possible for some squares: ThunderBirds uses F-16s, if their data is explained, then the capability of them is also revealed since there are F-16 squadrons in many countries. US Army does NOT want that.
PLEASE GIVE THE LINK OF VIDEOS OF BEST SHOW OF THE OTHER SUPERSONIC AEROBATIC TEAMS….
I GAVE THAT FOR TURKISH STARS! IF YOU WRITE, ALL OF US CAN EASILY REALIZE MY DATA: "TURKISH STARS IS THE BEST AEROBATIC TEAM OF THE WORLD"
F-5 has already been proved to be the BEST SUPERSONIC JET FOR AEROBATIC SHOWS. Many analysis were done before selecting that jet.
The truth of analises were proven: Turkish Stars make better maneuvers than the teams having F-15, F-18, Su 27! (tightness, close mirror image,...). There are approximately 130 reasons why NF5 jets are the best jets for airshows.
2.
These are THE SAME when the aerobatic teams perform IN THE SAME AIRSHOW PLACE! Hence, in some countries, the aforementioned aerobatic teams performed in the SAME WEEK in the SAME AIR CONDITIONS in the same AIRBASE!
3.
If you fly alone, then the 3D-complexity-count is only 1 (you care to yourself, you do NOT need to care any block of jets other than you. You alone are the BLOCK.). If you fly with some other pilot together (2 planes), then 3D-complexity-count is 6 (A cares A, A cares B, B cares A, B cares B, A cares the 2-block, B cares the 2-block), If you fly with other 2 planes, then 3D-complexity-count increases (A needs to care NOT ONLY THE OTHER JETS separately, but also the other 2 planes (the BLOCKEDNESS of the other two)),… 3D-complexity-count exponentially increases.
Forming the BLOCK with 8 jets is HARDER THAN forming the BLOCK with 6 jets! One cannot turn tightly in safe feelings when the number increases!
4.
Though the some of the aforementioned aerobatic teams are all SUPERSONIC, Turkish Stars performs "mirror image" better than the others even under difficult conditions (high speed Low altitude)!
ALSO: Members of Turkish Stars are elected from F-16 squadrons of Turkish Air Force (F-16 that ThunderBirds uses!). Members of Turkish Stars performed "<1 meter mirror image" with F-16s as well when they are in F-16 squadrons. So, the ABSENCE of "<1 meter mirror image" of ThunderBirds comes from NOT the potential of the jet they use, but the capability they have (more truly, they do NOT have)!
5.
If I said "accident NUMBERS", then you would be right. But, I said "accident RATES! The RATIO of accidents (number of accidents/<total shows+sorties>) are very high for Thunderbirds!
6. Filling the open squares in the chart:
NOT possible for some squares: ThunderBirds uses F-16s, if their data is explained, then the capability of them is also revealed since there are F-16 squadrons in many countries. US Army does NOT want that.
PLEASE GIVE THE LINK OF VIDEOS OF BEST SHOW OF THE OTHER SUPERSONIC AEROBATIC TEAMS….
I GAVE THAT FOR TURKISH STARS! IF YOU WRITE, ALL OF US CAN EASILY REALIZE MY DATA: "TURKISH STARS IS THE BEST AEROBATIC TEAM OF THE WORLD"
- Status
