Contra the hatred, German war cemetry Ysselstein, Captain Timmermans

[ARTESH]

Sorry for bringing this old topic, up.

This is written after reading original linked topic and this topic.

That was how "outsiders" acted and treated with German People, now just imagine what was the situation on Germany itself, I would not be surprised if I ever hear that ex Army / (specially) SS troopers were assassinated / humiliated by German People (obviously, not all of them) after the end of war, or their graves / houses were destroyed / ransacked.

And very similar things happened, and unfortunately, is happening right now in Iran by Regime fanatics and IRGC backed brainwashed people. I've seen and heard any kind of disrespect and even, insults, from IRGC so-called "Generals" ...

Long story short, it's normal what happened in The Netherlands or any other German occupied place in Europe and Africa, but those that the German (or any other nation) people done to their own, is a real pain and sorrow.

However, said words does not mean that I accept what happened to those who fought for their country.

May souls of all lost people rest in eternal peace.

 

[Marcel]

No worries about bringing this up Artesh. We pinned this for a reason and it's good if it's mentioned from time to time.

 

[manta22]

.. well said ... and nothing begets evil like poverty, jealousy and ignorance.

Not poverty itself. I have lived in places where the people were so hungry that they went through our garbage cans to find food and their clothes were rags or their old military uniforms. Even in such poverty, these people did not steal. It is a matter of moral character!

 

[manta22]

One more observation- I was an American GI in Germany during the most dangerous days of the Cold War, 1961 to 1963, the Berlin Wall had just gone up. Our kaserne was located on the edge of a small town named Babenhausen. In this old Medieval town were a few "GI bars" where troops normally hung out when off duty. I preferred at times to seek out a quieter place to enjoy a bier or two. There was a small local place that I found, "zum Hanauer Tor", that didn't attract GIs but had a friendly local atmosphere that I liked. I noticed that on many evenings there were older Germans who enjoyed the camaraderie there. On one evening there were only a couple of them at a table and they invited me to join them. Between broken English And broken German, I found out that this group were veterans of the Afrika Korps. There was no animosity on either side; the was was over and we were just soldiers together.
As it should be.

 

[manta22]

One more observation- I was an American GI in Germany during the most dangerous days of the Cold War, 1961 to 1963, the Berlin Wall had just gone up. Our kaserne was located on the edge of a small town named Babenhausen. In this old Medieval town were a few "GI bars" where troops normally hung out when off duty. I preferred at times to seek out a quieter place to enjoy a bier or two. There was a small local place that I found, "zum Hanauer Tor", that didn't attract GIs but had a friendly local atmosphere that I liked. I noticed that on many evenings there were older Germans who enjoyed the camaraderie there. On one evening there were only a couple of them at a table and they invited me to join them. Between broken English And broken German, I found out that this group were veterans of the Afrika Korps. There was no animosity on either side; the was was over and we were just soldiers together.
As it should be.

At the suggestion of my wife, Joline, I'll add a post script: We returned to Germany in 2013 (that's another long story) so I had an opportunity to re-visit my old Kaserne. It was now closed but walking through Babenhausen I found zum Hanauer Tor still existed. Joline and I went in and found that little had changed since I had last been there in 1963. I told the bartender/owner that I had been there 50 years ago as an American GI. He insisted on buying us both a bier. ("beer" for those who have never been there). As I said, a nice friendly local place... since the year 1620.

 

[manta22]

At the suggestion of my wife, Joline, I'll add a post script: We returned to Germany in 2013 (that's another long story) so I had an opportunity to re-visit my old Kaserne. It was now closed but walking through Babenhausen I found zum Hanauer Tor still existed. Joline and I went in and found that little had changed since I had last been there in 1963. I told the bartender/owner that I had been there 50 years ago as an American GI. He insisted on buying us both a bier. ("beer" for those who have never been there). As I said, a nice friendly local place... since the year 1620.

One last thing: There was one German guard who patrolled the inside fence around my old Kaserne. We talked together briefly through the fence and he told me that he had once been an East German officer!

 

[ARTESH]

manta22 , Very interesting story! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Marcel]

Great story manta. My father served at the East German border around the same time. He was a bit more to the north in Fallingbostel. He was there during the Cuba Crisis, which was pretty tense as far as I understood from him.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Man, that'd been awesome to sit at a table with veterans of the Afrika Korps!!

 

[ARTESH]

Man, that'd been awesome to sit at a table with veterans of the Afrika Korps!!

That's a pity that we can't use multiple reactions!!!

I owe you a bacon for this!

 

[manta22]

Great story manta. My father served at the East German border around the same time. He was a bit more to the north in Fallingbostel. He was there during the Cuba Crisis, which was pretty tense as far as I understood from him.

Thank you, Marcel. Your father was there during a very dangerous time.
I was selected to stay on at the Ordnance Guided Missile School in Redstone Arsenal as an instructor in Corporal IIB ground guidance, a course that I had just graduated from. During the "Cuban Crisis" there was a lot of griping about the President's order extending the enlistments of our troops. Some were put in a real bind as they had bought things like cars, homes, etc anticipating that they would be discharged in a few weeks and then could get a good-paying civilian job to make their loan payments. Instead, they were faced with paying off their loans while still making $85 a month as a soldier. When the Berlin Wall construction began, the Army realized that they needed to bring their strategic forces in Europe up to full strength immediately so trained guided missile personnel were a high priority. Guided missiles, especially the Corporal IIB, required recruiting men with GT scores of 120+ (100 was "average") and the training course was almost six months long so to short-circuit the delay, they went down the alphabetical list of instructors at OGMS and took the two guys at the top of the list- A & B. Neil Albaugh & David Brummett were whisked off to Germany to fill two open slots in the 157th Ordnance Detachment. We were detached to the 1st Missile Bn, 38th Artillery, part of V Corps. As I said earlier, our fire mission was to defend the Fulda Gap. Our unit, like all NATO forces at that time spent a lot of time training. Alerts were called at random times of the day or night and we scrambled to get into our full field gear, draw our M-14s and ammo from the arms room, hook up all our equipment to our trucks and drive to a pre-designated assembly area. We would then be given another location where we would set up a missile on its launcher, ready to fire. Word then would be received that this had been only an "FTX" - a field training exercise- stand down.
Some Alerts were not extensive but NATO-wide Alerts put a hundred thousand or more troops on the move. I remember one instance where things were so tense that demolition charges were placed in our kaserne to destroy it after we left. Frequently we were issued Thermite grenades to destroy our classified equipment to prevent it from falling into Soviet hands. I was SP5 E5 P2, Section Chief of the ground guidance section. (I'll bet nobody knows what "P2" meant.
Forgive me for beginning to make this sound like a dime novel but that was exactly how it was at the time.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Man, that'd been awesome to sit at a table with veterans of the Afrika Korps!!

When I in HS on a US Army base in Stuttgart, Germany, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's son Manfred Rommel was the mayor of Stuttgart. Manfred was very active in building a good relationship with the US military, and he was also active in the Afrika Korps Veterans association.

When I was in JROTC, he was the guest of honor at our military ball, and with him he brought several Afrika Korps veterans. We also took part in the 50th Anniversary of his fathers suicide memorial and laid a wreath at his grave, along with the US Army's 1st Infantry Division, and the veterans of the Afrika Korps. I have a great pic somewhere of us standing in formation with the 1st ID and Afrika Korps vets, with Manfred giving a speech at his fathers grave.

 

[manta22]

When I in HS on a US Army base in Stuttgart, Germany, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's son Manfred Rommel was the mayor of Stuttgart. Manfred was very active in building a good relationship with the US military, and he was also active in the Afrika Korps Veterans association.

When I was in JROTC, he was the guest of honor at our military ball, and with him he brought several Afrika Korps veterans. We also took part in the 50th Anniversary of his fathers suicide memorial and laid a wreath at his grave, along with the US Army's 1st Infantry Division, and the veterans of the Afrika Korps. I have a great pic somewhere of us standing in formation with the 1st ID and Afrika Korps vets, with Manfred giving a speech at his fathers grave.

By the 50th Anniversary of Erwin Rommel's death there were not many veterans still left. Rommel was well respected by most- friend and enemy alike. My Dad once told me that he (ER) traveled incognito to the US before the war to study how the Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus managed to be able to travel with such a big organization. His interest was in mobility. I wish I knew how Dad knew this.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

By the 50th Anniversary of Erwin Rommel's death there were not many veterans still left. Rommel was well respected by most- friend and enemy alike. My Dad once told me that he (ER) traveled incognito to the US before the war to study how the Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus managed to be able to travel with such a big organization. His interest was in mobility. I wish I knew how Dad knew this.

Rommel never actually visited the US. There are several versions of this. In others he was studying Stonewall Jackson for example. His son Manfred confirmed that his father never visited the US.

 

[SaparotRob]

Myth BUSTED.

 

[manta22]

Thank you. for confirming that he did not do that. Manfred should know.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Thank you. for confirming that he did not do that. Manfred should know.

Yeah, there are a lot of myths floating around about the famed desert fox.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

While speaking of the fox, here are some pics I took during my last visit to the site of his death, as well as his grave.

 

[manta22]

While speaking of the fox, here are some pics I took during my last visit to the site of his death, as well as his grave.

View attachment 685918View attachment 685919View attachment 685920View attachment 685921View attachment 685922

Thanks for the pictures. I have not seen those before.