Coronavirus Thread

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rochie said:
Minister has said today.
"Its about being sensible, yes you can go outside for a walk but limit your interaction with others"
Click to expand...

Exactly, sensible advice.
Unfortunately you can't legislate or confer emergency powers to make everyone sensible.
In the UK there is STILL panic buying. I asked the Fuhrerin whether there was anything we needed and she just said that the freezer was full. I took that as a no.
 
I heard from someone in Italy, the get a permit to go out once for shopping and have to show it when asked.
 
Marcel said:
I heard from someone in Italy, the get a permit to go out once for shopping and have to show it when asked.
Click to expand...

True. Autorities are trying to convince people to stay home and, if to no avail, more strict measures will be taken.
 
Marcel said:
I heard from someone in Italy, the get a permit to go out once for shopping and have to show it when asked.
Click to expand...

I don't know if that is the case or not, but it won't happen in the UK. There is no infrastructure to establish such a system, and nobody has even suggested it. Who administers it? Where do you go to get a permit? It's a ridiculous and massive over reaction to an admittedly serious problem.

People would just ignore it. If they need to buy supplies they will. They are not going to sit at home and starve.

Common sense will prevail.
 
I don't think Italy is any better placed to implement such an infrastructure. Then again, it's not hard to do these days. Our train service here in Germany uses one-time use QR codes as for rail fares purchased using the internet and cell phones. A similar capability could be set up relatively quickly and, since there's no billing involved, should be relatively straightforward to administer. Granted, it cuts out those citizens who aren't connected to the internet but I'm sure they have family members or carers who can do the shopping run for them, providing the purpose of the trip is clearly identified on the virtual pass.
 
It won't happen.

The UK government is planning long term. It expects the difficult situation to continue into next spring.

People can not be expected to lock themselves up for significant parts of the year.

This is the UK government's position and this is what it is planning for. It is not panicking or giving in to populist and unqualified pressure as some seem to be doing.

UK coronavirus crisis 'to last until spring 2021 and could see 7.9m hospitalised'

Notice the qualifications of those making these predictions. They are not internet warriors, nor do they hold degrees in journalism. They are the best experts in the relevant fields that we have.
 
Elmas said:
True. Autorities are trying to convince people to stay home and, if to no avail, more strict measures will be taken.
Click to expand...

Actually you don't need a permit, only you need a write declare that you go out for one of allowed needs

p.s. stona there are around 165k hospital beds in UK? so where you put the others?
 
Vincenzo said:
Actually you don't need a permit, only you need a write declare that you go out for one of allowed needs

p.s. stona there are around 165k hospital beds in UK? so where you put the others?
Click to expand...

Exactly. You don't have to "ask" a permit from the Autorities but you have to declare, in writing, why you are going out of the house and where you are going.
No problems to go to a supermarket close to your house but , if you have not a valid reason to be out of your home, you could be prosecuted.
Certainly I think that in U.K., where I.D. cards don't exit, it is very difficult to enforce something similar.
 
Vincenzo said:
Actually you don't need a permit, only you need a write declare that you go out for one of allowed needs

p.s. stona there are around 165k hospital beds in UK? so where you put the others?
Click to expand...

There are far fewer critical care beds than that, less than 4,000 in England. I don't know about the rest of the UK, but I'd be surprised if the combined total was more than England's.

The reason for asking older people to self isolate is to attempt to slow the rate of infection in the segment of the population most likely to require that sort of care. Younger and healthy people rarely require hospital treatment and can usually recover at home. There is a good chance that I have already done just that, though I will not now be tested.

Obviously, if close to 8 million people require hospitalisation over the next 14-18 months there will be a shortfall in hospital beds of all types.
 
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Italy report, 5 p.m. (CET) Today

deaths 2,158, sicks cumulative 27,980, recoveries 2,749, tests 137,962
lethality rate 7.71%
 

I'd like to know your source for that, as the most important factor that is missing is CONCENTRATION and TYPE. The alcohols need to be MINIMUM 60% and 70% is much better. Secondly Ethyl alcohol (ethanol) is more effective than Isoproply (Isopropanol) but the important factor is the alcohols concentration and rubbing the hands together until all the alcohol evaporates:


Why Is Washing Your Hands So Important, Anyway?
A dive into the science behind why hand-washing and alcohol-based hand sanitizer work so well
Katherine J. Wu
SMITHSONIANMAG.COM
MARCH 6, 2020

Soap can incapacitate SARS-CoV-2 and other viruses that have an outer coating called an envelope, which helps the pathogens latch onto and invade new cells. Viral envelopes and soap molecules both contain fatty substances that tend to interact with each other when placed in close proximity, breaking up the envelopes and incapacitating the pathogen. "Basically, the viruses become unable to infect a human cell," Permar says.

Alcohol-based hand sanitizers also target these vulnerable viral envelopes, but in a slightly different way. While soap physically dismantles the envelope using brute force, alcohol changes the envelope's chemical properties, making it less stable and more permeable to the outside world, says Benhur Lee, a microbiologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. (Note that "alcohol" here means a chemical like ethanol or isopropyl alcohol—not a beverage like vodka, which contains only some ethanol.)

Alcohol also can penetrate deep into the pathogen's interior, wreaking havoc on proteins throughout the virus. (Importantly, not all viruses come with outer envelopes. Those that don't, like the viruses that cause HPV and polio, won't be susceptible to soap, and to some extent alcohol, in the same way.)

Hand sanitizers made without alcohol—like some marketed as "baby-safe" or "natural"—won't have the same effect. The CDC recommends searching for a product with at least 60 percent alcohol content—the minimum concentration found to be effective in past studies. (Some water is necessary to unravel the pathogen's proteins, so 100 percent alcohol isn't a good option.)

As with hand-washing, timing matters with sanitizers. After squirting a dollop onto your palm, rub it all over your hands, front and back, until they're completely dry—without wiping them off on a towel, which could keep the sanitizer from finishing its job, Jurado says.,

But hand sanitizers come with drawbacks. For most people, using these products is less intuitive than hand-washing, and the CDC notes that many people don't follow the instructions for proper application. Hand sanitizers also don't jettison microbes off skin like soap, which is formulated to lift oily schmutz off surfaces, Akusobi says.
"Soap emulsifies things like dirt really well," he says. "When you have a dirty plate, you don't want to use alcohol—that would help sterilize it, but not clean it."
Similarly, anytime the grit is visible on your hands, don't grab the hand sanitizer; only a full 20 seconds (or more) of scrubbing with soapy water will do. All told, hand sanitizer "should not be considered a replacement for soap and water," Lee says. "If I have access to soap and water, I will use it."

Internet Myth: A top Chinese respiratory expert advised people to rinse their mouths with salt water to prevent infection. This "cure" was shared widely across social media. However, it was debunked by other experts.

There are several myths about measures which could help protect you from contracting coronavirus.

A recent internet claim is that rinsing your nose with salt water could help protect you. There is only limited evidence to suggest it actually helps. But some swear by rinsing their nose with salt water as a way of recovering more quickly from the common cold.

The NHS said: "There is no evidence that regularly rinsing the nose with salt water protects you from coronavirus and expert Zhong Nanshan, China's senior medical official told CTV News: "No present findings have suggested that saline water can kill the new coronavirus."
 
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Vincenzo said:
Italy report, 5 p.m. (CET) Today

deaths 2,158, sicks cumulative 27,980, recoveries 2,749, tests 137,962
lethality rate 7.71%
Click to expand...

The problem with that figure is that the number of infected people is much, much higher than the 27,980 reported.

Epidemiologists in the UK estimated that the total number of infected people was 20 to 50 times higher than reported during the containment phase here (when all people reporting symptoms were tested and their contacts traced).

South Korea has done the most testing per capita and has a mortality rate of around 1%.

The UK experts agree, estimating an OVERALL rate of between 0.6% and 1%. It is much higher in elderly and other vulnerable groups.
 
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