dangerous mission
- Thread starter renrich
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pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Amiens , Copenhagen or Taranto
Wildcat
Major
20th Feb 1942, 8 Wirraways attempt to intercept 100+ Japanese Naval aircraft over Rabaul. No prizes for guessing who won that encounter.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Kamikaze has to be the worst. How do you get past 100% casualties?
But on general missions where the aircraft was expected to come home (every day affairs that happened for years) I would give it to Bomber Command and their offensive into Germany. The loss rate, in general, exceeded 50% for all crews. And Bomber Command sustained it for years.
Thorlifter
Captain
As far as a single, most dangerous mission, I'd go with Ploesti.
As far as a single, most dangerous job, I'd go with any bomber mission, especially before the P-51's and P-47's came along.
2nd to that, I'd pick doing an attack in a torpedo plane.
I would discount the Kamikaze missions because that is a suicide mission. IMO, it doesn't really count as being "possibly" dangerous. I'm thinking the word "dangerous" involves the crew members are wanting to come home.
As far as a single, most dangerous job, I'd go with any bomber mission, especially before the P-51's and P-47's came along.
2nd to that, I'd pick doing an attack in a torpedo plane.
I would discount the Kamikaze missions because that is a suicide mission. IMO, it doesn't really count as being "possibly" dangerous. I'm thinking the word "dangerous" involves the crew members are wanting to come home.
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Dril Agenten v. 3
a video from the attack on Gestapo head quarters at shell house in Copenhagen
a video from the attack on Gestapo head quarters at shell house in Copenhagen
Thorlifter
now because English isn't my mother language, I'll not argue on the exact meaning of the word dangerous, to me a mission is more dangerous if the chances to survive are less. That's why I picked the Ulithi raid, in it chances to survive were even less than in a normal kamikaze mission bacause the target was so far away, if one didn't find it he just went missing as most of the Japanese went, IIRC only 3 Franceses/Gingas found Ulithi, one crashing into CV Randolph, one into a tanker and one onto a small island.
But IMHO there are many other more dangerous missions that that of Tidal Wave, for ex the above mentioned US torpedo attack against Japanese carriers at Midway, those flown by Battle crews against Sedan bridges on around 13.5.40, those flown by Soviet SB crews against German panzer spearheads in late June 41, losses many times over 50% and even the attack of FAF Do 17Zs from PLeLv 46 against Soviet tank formations at 300m on 11 June 44, losses were exactly 50%.
Juha
now because English isn't my mother language, I'll not argue on the exact meaning of the word dangerous, to me a mission is more dangerous if the chances to survive are less. That's why I picked the Ulithi raid, in it chances to survive were even less than in a normal kamikaze mission bacause the target was so far away, if one didn't find it he just went missing as most of the Japanese went, IIRC only 3 Franceses/Gingas found Ulithi, one crashing into CV Randolph, one into a tanker and one onto a small island.
But IMHO there are many other more dangerous missions that that of Tidal Wave, for ex the above mentioned US torpedo attack against Japanese carriers at Midway, those flown by Battle crews against Sedan bridges on around 13.5.40, those flown by Soviet SB crews against German panzer spearheads in late June 41, losses many times over 50% and even the attack of FAF Do 17Zs from PLeLv 46 against Soviet tank formations at 300m on 11 June 44, losses were exactly 50%.
Juha
Thorlifter
Captain
The reason I put the Ploesti raid above the torpedo attack at Midway is this. The torpedo attack was supposed to be a coordinated attack, utilizing dive bombers and fighter cover. It turned out to be almost a suicide mission due to the torpedo planes going in without either.
The Ploesti raid, they knew they were attacking the most heavily defended area Germany had, with maybe exception of Berlin itself. They knew they didn't have fighter escorts and had to do it themselves.
The Ploesti raid, they knew they were attacking the most heavily defended area Germany had, with maybe exception of Berlin itself. They knew they didn't have fighter escorts and had to do it themselves.
ToughOmbre
Senior Master Sergeant
Agree 100%. Kamikaze missions should not count. Danger wasn't an issue. They were gonna die one way or the other anyway.
TO
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
must agree with Juha in one battle I'm most familiar with at the Sedan Bridgehead
from Wiki
On 14 May 1940, in a desperate attempt to stop German forces crossing the Meuse, the Advanced Air Striking Force launched an "all-out" attack by all available bombers against the German bridgehead and pontoon bridges at Sedan. The light bombers were swarmed by opposing fighters and were devastated. Out of a strike force of 63 Battles and 8 Bristol Blenheims, 40 (including 35 Battles) were lost After these abortive raids, the Battle was switched to mainly night attacks, with much lower losses
A
from Wiki
On 14 May 1940, in a desperate attempt to stop German forces crossing the Meuse, the Advanced Air Striking Force launched an "all-out" attack by all available bombers against the German bridgehead and pontoon bridges at Sedan. The light bombers were swarmed by opposing fighters and were devastated. Out of a strike force of 63 Battles and 8 Bristol Blenheims, 40 (including 35 Battles) were lost After these abortive raids, the Battle was switched to mainly night attacks, with much lower losses
A
One to consider:
May 10th 1940, 11 Douglas 8A 3N take off to fight off attacking german airplanes. The a/c is totally unfit for this job as it is mainly a groud attack plane, but lack of enough fighters forces the dutch airforce to use them otherwise. Take off at 4.00h, last Douglas was shot down at 4.30, falling into an oiltank near Rotterdam. No douglas plane survives the first 30 minutes of the war...
May 10th 1940, 11 Douglas 8A 3N take off to fight off attacking german airplanes. The a/c is totally unfit for this job as it is mainly a groud attack plane, but lack of enough fighters forces the dutch airforce to use them otherwise. Take off at 4.00h, last Douglas was shot down at 4.30, falling into an oiltank near Rotterdam. No douglas plane survives the first 30 minutes of the war...
Thorlifter
Captain
Yeah, that's a good one Marcel. By scale, it doesn't compare to some of the deep bomber raids, but 100% loss in a mission where they probably knew they would be completely overwhelmed, that certainly could qualify for the most dangerous mission.
Marshall_Stack
Senior Airman
Nobody mentioned the Dambusters. Flying a Lanc low into all that flak....
Thorlifter
Captain
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
I think the RAF Gladiator fighters sent to Norway in April 1940 had it tough. Frozen lakes as airfields, biplanes against Bf 109s and Bf 110s, no ground facilities or supplies and cold. Pretty tough for the few days and weeks they were there.
Best is when they evacuated, these land pilots had to fly them out and land on a carrier - for the first time!
Best is when they evacuated, these land pilots had to fly them out and land on a carrier - for the first time!
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
I think we should get a few more suggestios as this is Poll worthy
Sedan Bridges
Ploesti
Dambusters
Devasatators at Midway
Faith Hope and Charity
Marcels Juhas Njaco all have good suggestions that would make for good debates
Sedan Bridges
Ploesti
Dambusters
Devasatators at Midway
Faith Hope and Charity
Marcels Juhas Njaco all have good suggestions that would make for good debates
davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
So many heroes. Some.
All LW pilots in late 44 to wars end. Into the fire.
Doolittle raid. Launched early, knew their range was insufficient, knew their chances were small.
B-17/24 crews, from on-set of deep penetration raids until late 44. Survive, go to bed, get up, go again.
Naval strikes against Japanese fleet off Truk. Not enough fuel. How would you like to ditch in the middle of the Pacific and hope to be rescued. Sharks?
So many others in all the services. I will not pick one. Naming one group disrespects the others. I cannot even grasp the courage it takes to make the decisions they did. Heroes, all.
All LW pilots in late 44 to wars end. Into the fire.
Doolittle raid. Launched early, knew their range was insufficient, knew their chances were small.
B-17/24 crews, from on-set of deep penetration raids until late 44. Survive, go to bed, get up, go again.
Naval strikes against Japanese fleet off Truk. Not enough fuel. How would you like to ditch in the middle of the Pacific and hope to be rescued. Sharks?
So many others in all the services. I will not pick one. Naming one group disrespects the others. I cannot even grasp the courage it takes to make the decisions they did. Heroes, all.
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Its not so much as picking one better than the other as just recognizing some missions were tougher than others and some had more than courage to attempt them.
Erich
the old Sage
so with all these battle-info-suicidal missions what is going to become of them on this thread ? wonder is this some sort of project that will be worked on for the future of the site ??
drgondog
Major
August 1,1943 - Ploesti, after the first Halpro mission which was a small high level attack by only a few B-24s.
The Tidal Wave mission gets my vote. Large force, complex route structure requiring critical timing, lead crew lost in bound, wrong turns made, Germans well prepared, low flying -slow B-24s in broud daylight, extremely well defended by light and heavy flak plus fighters -
Can't think of another mission as bold, as dangerous or least suited to the airfame or doctrine of any Air Force.
