Destroyers.....

[Lucky13]

Here goes lads....which is the top dog from any of these destroyer classes? 8)

Fantasque Class v.
Narvik Class v.
Soldati Class v.
Akizuki Class v.
Soobrazitelny Class v.
L and M Class v.
Fletcher Class v.

 

[Amsel]

I really like the Fletcher class. Some of my favorite ships are from the Fletcher class including DD-557 USS Johnston and the USS Hoel. The Fletcher class was really at an advantage for surface fighting due to the same radar-assisted Mark 37 Gun Fire Control System used on the BB's, and its Mark 1 Fire Control Computer from Ford. It was used up until 1969.

The Fletchers will always be among y favorite due to the Battle off Samar and the tough resistance Taffy 3 put up against Kuritas powerful Center Force.

 

[Glider]

1 Fletcher
Best all round destroyer of the group
2 Akizuki
DP main weapons and the best torpedos
3 LM
Best British Fleet Destroyer but I would go for the 8 x 4in not the 6 x 4.7in version
4 Fantastique
Best armed destroyer for Surface to Surface fighting.
5 Narvik Class
On paper a heavier gun armament than the Fantastique but 5.9 shells were too heavy and the ships unbalanced
6 Soldati
Good little destroyers which needed a DP main armament
7 Soobrazitelny
Dreadfull vessels that were a follow on from an earlier design which could not face up to a heavy sea. A clue is that one captain was given a medal for keeping his destroyer at sea for three days, also they sank nothing in the entire war, not even a merchant ship.

 

[Juha]

Agree totally with Amsel.
Fletcher was really good class and look the number produced, 175 IIRC. And yes the fight of Johnston, Hoel and Hermann plus those couple DEs was really outstanding.

Juha

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

I recoginze the Flecther from that list. Sorry, I don't have any knowledge on those other class of Destroyers.

 

[vikingBerserker]

And yes the fight of Johnston, Hoel and Hermann plus those couple DEs was really outstanding. Juha

A classic. I have to go with the Fletcher as well

 

[comiso90]

Were there other Destroyers besides The Fletcher?

.

 

[timshatz]

One thing that should be mentioned about the speeds on ships, especially Destroyers. Once you get north of 25 knots, in any kind of weather, it is almost impossible to stand on those things, much less fight. When people talk about a top speed of this or that, it should be taken into consideration that those speeds are only good for calm water. Once the seas build, forget it. You're not going over 25knots and getting anything done.

Realize it hasn't been brought up yet but it's something people miss when talking about those old destroyers. A little different now with stabelizers and whatnot. But not much.

My vote is for the Fletchers. Good all around Destroyer.

 

[Glider]

One thing that should be mentioned about the speeds on ships, especially Destroyers. Once you get north of 25 knots, in any kind of weather, it is almost impossible to stand on those things, much less fight. When people talk about a top speed of this or that, it should be taken into consideration that those speeds are only good for calm water. Once the seas build, forget it. You're not going over 25knots and getting anything done.

Realize it hasn't been brought up yet but it's something people miss when talking about those old destroyers. A little different now with stabelizers and whatnot. But not much.

True to a degree. When HMS Cavalier the last british WW2 destroyer was in her last few years of service she was pitched against the newest destroyer in a race as part of a publicity stunt, as you can guess it didn't go according to plan and the Cavalier won the race.
According to everyone on board she was rattling and shaking herself to bits but managed 37 kts in I think 1970, not bad for an old lady.

 

[renrich]

Tim, good remarks. I go with Fletcher, a good balanced design.

 

[ToughOmbre]

The "Fletchers" are to DDs what the "Iowas" are to BBs.

And good looking ships to boot!

TO

 

[Torch]

Good website for info........History of the World's Navy's

 

[timshatz]

True to a degree. When HMS Cavalier the last british WW2 destroyer was in her last few years of service she was pitched against the newest destroyer in a race as part of a publicity stunt, as you can guess it didn't go according to plan and the Cavalier won the race.
According to everyone on board she was rattling and shaking herself to bits but managed 37 kts in I think 1970, not bad for an old lady.

I was thinking of time I spent on a Gearing (Fletcher on steroids). In any weather other than flat, she pitched. Not bad, but it was noticeable. Especially as she was top heavy. The higher the seas, the worse the ride. We got stuck in a gig where we were going after a Columbian AF C-130 that had ditched North of Bermuda. We started out in 12ft seas and ended up in 20-25ft seas. Even in 12ft, it was pointless to go over 23-24kts, it was throwing people out of their racks. Seas got worse, speed came down. And guys were throwing up all over the place. Even had puke on the overhead. It was nutz.

I was thinking of that (and other similar events) in terms of the affect of speed and whatnot. Whilethe numbers are impressive (we could do 33kts sustained but it was a rough ride), the trade off in weight usually means the ship is lite, top heavy and not a good gunnery platform at high speeds.

Might be different now with new ships.

 

[Juha]

Hello
looked on Glider's list and tended to agree with him, Akizuki's weak point is its AAA, 25mm AAA gun wasn't very good, and when they added more of them, they removed the second DT which was IMHO a bad move, after that it could engage only one target in time with its 100mm guns. But IIRC Japanese industry had difficulties to deliver enough of those DTs, which were very good, almost as good as US Mk 37.

Juha

 

[Glider]

Were there other Destroyers besides The Fletcher?

.

Apologies for missing your question.
The Standard production destroyer for the USN at the start of the war was the Benson class. Designed for 5 x 5in, 10 x TT and 6 x HMG they normally ended up with 4 x 5in, 10 x TT, 2 x 40 (1 x 2), 4 x 20mm ( 4x1). Very few were built as designed, if I remember correctly about 4 almost all being built with 4 x 5in. There were considerable differences between individual vessels as the war progressed.

After the Fletcher the standard production destroyer was the Allen M Summner. 6 x 5in (3x2), 12 x 40mm (2x4, 2x2), 11 x 20mm (11 x 1) and 10 x TT. In some ways these were not a success as they tended to be slower than designed around 33 knots not 36 and were top heavy from the start.

 

[beaupower32]

Fletcher Class for me here also. Im kinda fond of the USS Kidd. I have visited her numerous times in Louisiana.


USS KIDD Veterans Memorial


The KIDD's first voyage was one of some notoriety. Under the command of Cdr. Allan B. Roby, the destroyer moved across New York Harbor for delivery to the Brooklyn Naval Shipyards . . . flying the skull and crossbones of the Jolly Roger high from the foremast. The edition of TIME magazine that week carried a photo of KIDD, announcing that it had been one hundred years since the Jolly Roger had flown in New York Harbor. The crew quickly adopted the pirate Captain Kidd—who ironically hailed from New York—as their mascot and hired a local cartoonist to paint the famed buccaneer's image high of the forward smokestack. Not wishing to dishonor RADM Kidd, however, the crew obtained permission from Mrs. Kidd first. The Admiral's nickname at the Naval Academy had been "Cap" (as in "Captain Kidd") and he had gone by this nickname his entire life. So on the crew's behalf, Mrs. Kidd obtained official permission from the powers-that-be in the Navy for them to paint the pirate on the stack and fly the Jolly Roger. The KIDD would become the only vessel in the history of the United States Navy to ever have such leave granted to fly the flag of piracy.

During a simulated torpedo attack in September of that year, KIDD was struck by two star-shells fired from the NORTH CAROLINA (BB-55). As fortune had it, her forward damage control party was exercising in the immediate vicinity with a make-believe casualty strapped into a stretcher. One of the shells entered the compartment and crossed just above the chest of the pretended casualty. The sailor suffered a minor abrasion from a fleck of debris. The skipper reported to the task force commander: "KIDD claims to be the best prepared ship in the Navy. We had a victim already strapped in the stretcher when he was wounded.

It was early on at this point in her career when she picked up the nickname that would become her trademark. Taking their mascot pirate to heart, crew members began to "ransom" rescued pilots for ice cream mix and other delicacies from their comrades aboard aircraft carriers so that her reputation grew as the "Pirate of the Pacific." Other destroyers conducted this practice, but KIDD did so with a certain flair. The Pirates were one of the first "tin cans"—destroyers—to have their very own ice cream machine, something usually reserved for the larger vessels of the fleet.

 

[Amsel]

Great story.

 

[renrich]

Tim it is always good to hear from someone who has practical experience. Adds a little reality to the discussion and your remarks and observations are much appreciated. I was always an admirer of the Gearing class (from looking at pictures) probably because of their heavy armament. They were big DDs with lots of guns and torpedoes, perhaps too many.

 

[Amsel]

I have heard a few references to the officers and sailors of the DD's and DE's being the real navy.

 

[Lucky13]

So I'm not the only one with a soft spot for the "pirate ship" USS Kidd DD-661 then?