ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
Looking really good. Nice work !
Charles
Charles
**** DONE: 1/48 Spitfire Mk IX – Home Country Modern Aircraft/Spitfire Marks GB
- Thread starter meatloaf109
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Mid stone and green were never used. In North Africa, the colours were Mid Stone, Dark Earth and either Azure, or Medium Sea Grey under sides.
The unit moved from Malta, and were still equipped with MkV Spits, whilst at the same time receiving the MkIX. The MkVs were most probably in Middle East colours, but it appears the MkIXs were either delivered in Temperate Day Fighter schemes, or re-painted at the MUs. The colours are almost certainly Green/Grey uppers, with Medium Sea Grey under surfaces. The upper surface grey might be 'Mixed Grey', which was slightly lighter than Ocean Grey, and was mixed due to a shortage of the latter in 1943.
The darker appearance of the over-painted tail bands will be due to two things; 1) Fresh paint looking darker, due to lack of fading. 2) The effect of the Orthochromatic film used for the photograph. This type of film is designed for high-contrast reproduction for litho printing, but was sometimes used in 'normal' cameras, due to a lack of Panchromatic film. Being high contrast, certain colours register darker, whilst others display a marked shift in tonal value - far too complex to go into in detail, unless you fancy a two year course in Graphics Photography!!
The unit moved from Malta, and were still equipped with MkV Spits, whilst at the same time receiving the MkIX. The MkVs were most probably in Middle East colours, but it appears the MkIXs were either delivered in Temperate Day Fighter schemes, or re-painted at the MUs. The colours are almost certainly Green/Grey uppers, with Medium Sea Grey under surfaces. The upper surface grey might be 'Mixed Grey', which was slightly lighter than Ocean Grey, and was mixed due to a shortage of the latter in 1943.
The darker appearance of the over-painted tail bands will be due to two things; 1) Fresh paint looking darker, due to lack of fading. 2) The effect of the Orthochromatic film used for the photograph. This type of film is designed for high-contrast reproduction for litho printing, but was sometimes used in 'normal' cameras, due to a lack of Panchromatic film. Being high contrast, certain colours register darker, whilst others display a marked shift in tonal value - far too complex to go into in detail, unless you fancy a two year course in Graphics Photography!!
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- Thread starter
- #44
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Got it!
Many thanks, and I will continue with the Spit in the grey, green, and grey..always liked that scheme the best!
Many thanks, and I will continue with the Spit in the grey, green, and grey..always liked that scheme the best!
Crimea_River
Marshal
There's another little thing we need to figure out. In the picture of MH650, there's a small circular crest over the fin flash that we'll need to decipher. I'm wondering too if there's some kind of personal emblem under the windscreen but the area is in glare.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Good stuff Wojtek.
- Thread starter
- #49
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Yes, many thanks!
- Thread starter
- #50
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
I noticed those also, I figured that there may be a name in white or sky, but the circular mark above the fin flash has got me puzzled.
The info I found said that 1435 never recieved a squadron emblem or motto, so what could it be?
The MH650 appeared not that serial. I have found an image of a better quality. It's MH660. Below the winshield there is the squadron unofficial emblem - green open-jawed dragon's head with a red "flaming" tong and white teeth. The small round badge above the fin flash is 1435's unofficial crest.
Also I have enlarged a part of Terry's find and it revealed that there was the crest as well. By the way the Spitfire Mk.IX coded DoV was EN199. The same I have found on the fin of KoV Spitfire serial MH6??.
See these above.....
Also I have enlarged a part of Terry's find and it revealed that there was the crest as well. By the way the Spitfire Mk.IX coded DoV was EN199. The same I have found on the fin of KoV Spitfire serial MH6??.
See these above.....
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Benevolens Magister
Great stuff Wojtek. The pic you posted certainly looks like Malta, and the Squadron moved from there to Italy in October 1943, so the dates correspond. The pic I posted is in Italy.
AND - another development. This might help to explain the 'odd' tones in the photos, which I'm not convinced are due just to Ortho film, apart from the 'known' tonal changes.
I've been doing some checking on Spitfire units on Malta between 1942 and late 1943, albeit MkVs (which 1435Flight/Sqn also used), and the predominant colour scheme has been the Temperate, using Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky. Some aircraft utilised Azure or Mediterranean Blue under sides, but were mainly Sky.
This falls into place with my original statement regarding the underside colours, and would also explain the apparent 'light' tone of what I presumed was Ocean or Mixed Grey, this being Dark Earth instead!
BUT! In the last pic posted, the close-up showing the tail, there is still that odd dark area to explain. Now, one source suggests the Squadron's colour scheme was the MTO scheme, of Dark earth, Mid Stone, Med. Blue, which could also be correct for the period/theatre. If this is the colour, which it could be, allowing for tonal changes, then that could explain the rudder colour, if this part had been taken from an airframe painted in the temperate scheme - if that makes sense?!
Having checked all of these options closely, the tones of the code letters caught my attention. On at least one example of the Temperate scheme (Green/Earth), these have been recorded as white, rather than the more usual Sky, and, of course, white is also the colour for code letters with the MTO scheme.
I'm still undecided, with a leaning to the the Temperate scheme and white codes, but strong evidence to suggest the MTO scheme and white codes, reinforced by the (presumably) replacement rudder.
The latter scheme would make sense for MkIXs shipped to the Middle East first, as opposed to Italy direct, as happened later, and also corresponds to similar schemes seen on MkIXs of other units operating in southern Italy and Sicily.
Hope this makes sense, and is useful, but, of course, the final choice is yours.
You don't half pick 'em !!
AND - another development. This might help to explain the 'odd' tones in the photos, which I'm not convinced are due just to Ortho film, apart from the 'known' tonal changes.
I've been doing some checking on Spitfire units on Malta between 1942 and late 1943, albeit MkVs (which 1435Flight/Sqn also used), and the predominant colour scheme has been the Temperate, using Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky. Some aircraft utilised Azure or Mediterranean Blue under sides, but were mainly Sky.
This falls into place with my original statement regarding the underside colours, and would also explain the apparent 'light' tone of what I presumed was Ocean or Mixed Grey, this being Dark Earth instead!
BUT! In the last pic posted, the close-up showing the tail, there is still that odd dark area to explain. Now, one source suggests the Squadron's colour scheme was the MTO scheme, of Dark earth, Mid Stone, Med. Blue, which could also be correct for the period/theatre. If this is the colour, which it could be, allowing for tonal changes, then that could explain the rudder colour, if this part had been taken from an airframe painted in the temperate scheme - if that makes sense?!
Having checked all of these options closely, the tones of the code letters caught my attention. On at least one example of the Temperate scheme (Green/Earth), these have been recorded as white, rather than the more usual Sky, and, of course, white is also the colour for code letters with the MTO scheme.
I'm still undecided, with a leaning to the the Temperate scheme and white codes, but strong evidence to suggest the MTO scheme and white codes, reinforced by the (presumably) replacement rudder.
The latter scheme would make sense for MkIXs shipped to the Middle East first, as opposed to Italy direct, as happened later, and also corresponds to similar schemes seen on MkIXs of other units operating in southern Italy and Sicily.
Hope this makes sense, and is useful, but, of course, the final choice is yours.
You don't half pick 'em !!
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Terry , according to the reference I found the info posted above, your picture was taken in Brindisi in Spring 1944. As far as the one I found is concerned it is not mentioned at all. But it seems to be take at the same time.
Regarding these colours we should remeber about fading effect. All greys and blue colours fade under the sunligh after some time. As a result these look like being of lighter tonality.
Regarding these colours we should remeber about fading effect. All greys and blue colours fade under the sunligh after some time. As a result these look like being of lighter tonality.
- Thread starter
- #54
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
"Mud and Sludge"? I think I can come up with a mix for those, I have a bottle of "Sky", so I'm good there.
I have some decals for the correct national insignia, but the squadron thingie is a different matter as, other than liquid decal film for fixing old ones, I don't have the stuff to make custom decals.
I have some decals for the correct national insignia, but the squadron thingie is a different matter as, other than liquid decal film for fixing old ones, I don't have the stuff to make custom decals.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Could well be the RAF Crest Andy. Looking at the Aircraft Movement Card details, I'm now even more inclined to think the colours are the MTO scheme.
- Thread starter
- #58
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Not for a very long time, imagine my suprise upon finding a spit picture!
Thanks!
- Thread starter
- #59
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Yeah, I thought this would be a relatively simple thing! Nothing like a challenge!
So... popular concensus is, MTO grey, green, grey?
My first thought on that rudder was, a replacement one had been installed, but it was the closeness to the paint covering the sky band that had me puzzled.
I am convinced, after studying the picts and pondering the wonderful information that has been provided, that I must do this Aircraft justice. It is just off the mark enough to really intrigue me.
I agree that the round marking above the fin flash is probably the RAF symbol. That would be logical. I think I can replicate it.
I am proceeding at a careful rate, as the door will be open and the cockpit will be a major focus. I have not made up my mind on the Merlin however.
I attatched some wiring to the port side of the IP, and have a "wire strap" on the starboard inner to trap the lines that come from the undercart selector.
The seat frame has the lightening holes drilled out, oddly enough, with ICM's attention to detail, the next frame back is only represented with the top piece.
I have cut some bottoms to install, as well as a replacement armor plate for the too thick kit part.
The starboard side with the oxygen hose in place, a scratch bottle is ready for installation on the shelf after painting.
ATTACH=CONFIG]200871[/ATTACH]
So... popular concensus is, MTO grey, green, grey?
My first thought on that rudder was, a replacement one had been installed, but it was the closeness to the paint covering the sky band that had me puzzled.
I am convinced, after studying the picts and pondering the wonderful information that has been provided, that I must do this Aircraft justice. It is just off the mark enough to really intrigue me.
I agree that the round marking above the fin flash is probably the RAF symbol. That would be logical. I think I can replicate it.
I am proceeding at a careful rate, as the door will be open and the cockpit will be a major focus. I have not made up my mind on the Merlin however.
I attatched some wiring to the port side of the IP, and have a "wire strap" on the starboard inner to trap the lines that come from the undercart selector.
The seat frame has the lightening holes drilled out, oddly enough, with ICM's attention to detail, the next frame back is only represented with the top piece.
I have cut some bottoms to install, as well as a replacement armor plate for the too thick kit part.
The starboard side with the oxygen hose in place, a scratch bottle is ready for installation on the shelf after painting.
ATTACH=CONFIG]200871[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Last edited:
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Great stuff!
I'm still wavering on the colours, and undecided if it's the 'standard' MTO colours of Dark Earth and Mid Stone, with the Mediterranean Blue under sides, or the temperate scheme of Dark Green/Dark Earth/Medium Sea Grey! This would certainly explain the difference on the rudder, which could be in Grey and Green, or Dark Earth/ Green (if the rest is the MTO scheme), a replacement from another kite.
I'm still wavering on the colours, and undecided if it's the 'standard' MTO colours of Dark Earth and Mid Stone, with the Mediterranean Blue under sides, or the temperate scheme of Dark Green/Dark Earth/Medium Sea Grey! This would certainly explain the difference on the rudder, which could be in Grey and Green, or Dark Earth/ Green (if the rest is the MTO scheme), a replacement from another kite.
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