**** DONE: 1/72 Morane Saulnier 406 - Pacific Theatre of Operations II

[fubar57]

That came out better Michael. I use Tamiya as well only because that was all I could get at the time and while I don't mind it for detail work, I have never been happy brush painting the main areas of the aircraft. The hobby store I go to in P.G. now carries both Vallejo and Vallejo Model Air and will be replacing my Tamiya paints as they run out.

Geo

 

[mikewint]

Acrylic paint does not turn out well when brushed, but I've never had any problems using it with an airbrush. So my situation is somewhat reversed. 90% of my paints are acrylic, either Tamyia, Model Master, or Testor. I have a few Enamels in special colors that I could not find in Acrylic. On the Widow, the green chromate was an enamel and I could easily tell how smooth and easy it was to brush on as opposed to any of the Acrylics.
Trying to undo any paint job is a giant PIA. As Wayne said a FINE (600 grit or higher) paper and I'd opt for a wet/dry paper personally

 

[Vic Balshaw]

It's a hard call when you're not happy with the paintwork, I can only reiterate Wayne's solution of sanding back lightly with a very fine cut and if you have it an even finer cut to smooth that out. I use these sticks that I got from Guideline Publications a few years back.

Guideline Publications | 0

 

[parsifal]

well just about complete. repair of the paintwork went okay, but i lost a lot of the good texture that I was so happy about. it looks rougher now, but acceptable, IMO.

The possibilities for the oxidisation are endless, but i have the following suspicions

1) i washed the plastic parts before assembly in warm soapy water. i rinsed, but let them stand to dry. i used more detergent than perhaps i should. im thinking, maybe i should not use soap in future, just rinse under water.

2) I have doubts that the paint is the culprit. The oxiding occurred in three colours, not just one. unlikely that all three would be defective. having said that, if there was an impurity of some kind in the gun, it would get into all three paints.

3) carrying forward on that last point, maybe I was putting the impurities into the gun myself. i cleaned my airbrush after each application, which basically entailed stripping the brush down, putting the needle, the difuser and the jet into acylic cleaner, washing the remainder of the gun in water, and then cleaning the resovoir out with pipe cleaners and cue tips soaked in acrylic thinner. i recently purchased 4 litres of acrylic (automotive grade) thinners. ive used this stuff before, and it hasnt given me any grief before, but im thinking it might have some impurity in it this time....a bad batch.

4) not allowing enough time after applying the base coat, before applying the next coat. If ther was an impurity in the greay base, and i didnt let it dry properly, that impurity might leach through. ive looked at that grey several times now, and if you let it settle in the jar, it does seem to have white stuff in the paint. not likley but possible.

i was basically applying a new colour every 24 hours when i was painting. is that long enough you think for acrylic to dry?

5) impurities on the masking or maskol. The problems didnt start to manifes t until after i applied the third coat, when i used maskol extensively. That stuff works, buts its foul and horrible i can tell you.

6) the model shop in my town think maybe i should use a clear primer base before applying the main colours. ive got some, and have used it before, but not in this build. may be worth doing in the future as a precaution

These are the possibilities i could think of... maybe there are others

The model is almost finished. I have to go back and redo the gun sight. it fell off and i dont know where it is now. pretty easy to replicate, but hard to attach without damaging the paint job

Anyway, here are some shots of what it looks like....

 

[Catch22]

Nice work!

 

[Wurger]

 

[VBF-13]

Awesome thread, learned a lot from it. Great work!

 

[Wayne Little]

"Foul and horrible" that doesn't sound like Maskol I used many, many years ago....quite possible this stuff has an ingredient that doesn't play well with acrylics...
generally acrylics can be worked on after 24 hours with no problem, even less in many cases, the only colours i leave longer are White, Yellow and Red.

 

[Wurger]

Michael, the possible reason for the white deposit might be the thickness of a layer of a paint. If it is too thick applied the effect of the oxidisation may appear. Secondly, the amount of thinner can be the reason for that as well. Too much of the a solvent can cause the effect too.

 

[parsifal]

ah, then quite possiblky the latter, as i added quite a bit of thinner to the mix. It was more than 1/3, but less than 1/2, which I think is too much thinner. I didnt think it would have that effect though. It should be less than 25% IIRC????

 

[Wurger]

It is very hard to say how much of thinner has to be added. It depends on paints etc.. One thing is certain .... too much of thinner makes the white deposit especially if there is some of moisture around in the air. Also because of a chemical composition of a thinner. In early time of acrylic paint as the thinner was suggested and used distilled water, These days thinners for a such colours are of another kind and have a very different composition.

 

[Crimea_River]

Turned out alright. Another thing to look at is how you mix the paint/thinner. You need to be sure the two are fully mixed before starting to blow onto the model. 30 to 50% thinner actually doesn't sound wrong. I tend toward 50/50 myself.

 

[mikewint]

I personally do not think oxidation (reacting with oxygen) is a problem. While paints do oxidize the process is very slow though UV speeds the process. There is also a thread on paint thinner. I still maintain that you cannot automatically state **/## is the mix ratio to use. Every jar is slightly different some may require zero thinner and some much more it all depends. The only overall general rule is "Consistancy of milk" and that only applies to airbrushing. Correct me if I am wrong Michael but I believe that you are using a brush not an airbrush.
As to thinner, I use Tamiya's thinner on all acrylic paints though plain rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl) also works. In the past I have also used blue windshield washer fluid with absolutely no problems even with white paint.
I remain a "By Guess and By Golly" thinner. If the paint is not spreading nicely thin slowly. Apply multiple thin coats rather than one heavy coat. A light bulb (incandescent) can be used for some gentle heat to speed dry/cure time and upping temp lowers humidity.
At this point I'd buy a cheap plastic kit and try various different things to find the problem. Terry's PDF on brushing is better than excellent

 

[Wurger]

Andy , the ratio is more relevant for airbrushing than for brushing. For instance the best ( IMHO ) effect of painting could be achieved when using Humbrol enamels direct out of a can without thinning but mixed well only. However I agree that if a thinner is added , a colour and a thinner have to be fully mixed before applying on a model.

 

[destrozas]

michael, I will also give my opinion , I will second your points and my experience .
me something like this has never happened to begin with, but if you 've read in works to friends and former colleagues of association ( the leaves I do not follow the criteria for what originated ) , and was by varnish in your case from the rule it principle not you mention that you gave any kind of varnish.

1) The soap may not be as uq and if the soap had let rest once dry paint had fallen , and that does not adhere to the surface.
2) airbrush if the paint is not well mixed , ( if vallejo can see up to three different colors in the same boat ) this might separate the colors that make thus to airbrush maybe white selling from there . You may not accept the diluent cutting her white paint and aparenza adsorvido that when the airbrush.
3 ) A diluent has always worked very rare to quit , but with changes in regulations that are currently undergoing some component may paint it finds changed and react with the diluent.
4) It may be that the primer would have reacted to the paint layer , it is possible but if it is true that would blend with the color you 're painting or even diluted and force the air out to the sides and the plastic is see but would look spidery legs
5) Maskol tubiera impurities would come out if not directly then would come out if the Maskol could cause problems and in fact I do not use it for anything not successful dwindle much during drying and that the stress exerted on the bottom layer and beyond where it is applied is guilty of stains and things like ` but always from the beginning.
6) As you say , or it seemed to me to read these paintings you talking not used before and did not know how they would react and can cause these paintings with air and used solvent that has been decomposed and the cause....

Something that is important to me is each painting its solvent and if I have to use a neutral solvent, isopropyl alcohol or acetone industry where appropriate, but carefully.

 

[parsifal]

Guys

Thanks so much for all the comments and advice. ive left this model alone now for more than a fortnight, came back to it last night just to glance at it. Ive re-made the gunsight and attached it (two weeks ago), but this last element needs to be painted (really carefully....the scratch built gunsight sits edge on to two pieces of PE scrap that I had lying around....so there is not a lot of strength to this element of the model. i have to dry brush this bit, and be REALLY light on the touch) . And ive been hesitating a bit because of that. There is also, visible under the mag glass, some woolly stuff caught in the cockpit that I need to get out somehow, but thats about all now. The guns look good, and the spinner went on pretty well. i fitted the underside landing light, using the silver paint method wotjek told me about. Not really visible with the camera, but in the flesh it looks pretty good really. Underscart is fitted and in the down position and looking okay IMO. No really unsightly glue overruns. The U/C looks just slightly out of square, but good enough. ive fitted the aerial wire to the mast, but Im unsure if they were fitted to these pacific deployments or not. ive assumed yes for the moment.

Its ready, and i really have only about 30 mins work left to do. In my opinion, however, the fortnights sojourn has seemed to settle the paint work down a lot. To me there is a noticeable improvement to the presentation of the paintwoork. maybe its the semi gloss lacquer finish ive applied over the top of the decals, but in my opinion, the paintwork seems to look a lot better. Or maybe its just me being more accepting of its limitations. Dont know. but in the next week or so will finalise the thing and post the finished shots thread. You guys can be the judge of the results.

Im glad i did this build. it was very different for me, and threw up the usual challenges. im slowly getting the hang of this stuff, and still get a kick out of completing a build. Flying with the professionals, but hey, you guys havent politely asked me to leave yet, so i guess Im doin okay.

 

[Wayne Little]

look forward to the Pics Michael...and more builds in the future..!

 

[Wurger]

Yep..

 

[fubar57]

Yeppers, more builds make you better as do making the odd mistake. I think if I stopped making and correcting mistakes, the builds would be boring.

Geo

 

[destrozas]

michael, do not worry about as left , never goes as expected , only when the practice takes you to fully control all about what you work is when you have good results , I've been six years slowly improving unhurried I adsorviendo well each failure to commit to try to avoid it in the work sigueinte 'm changing some procedure and always , always do is look at the work that partners do , it gives me another point seen know how to act.

I'll tell you what he said in his day a great world modeler I am lucky enough to know " if you wear short goals can improve if you put them in long you'll crash your vanity ", " models begins to master the techniques and when the master then go to get better not try to make a winning model from day one , was ready and Imponte short challenges or you will fall into disappointment and end up by leaving modelsimo "and I checked people for wanting to do supermodels and not get was disappointed and has left .

as a song says " Walker does the way the road is made by walking "