Georgia and Russia at war.

Ramirezzz · Aug 14, 2008

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Dont you base your opinion on so called "experts" as well?

I would say no, or at least not to 100 percent. There's a lot of decent literature regarding the Russ-Georgian relations available in Russian language ,and I'm looking now for some good English stuff.
As for actual development of the situation in Georgia, I must admit nobody has a complete picture, neither in Georgia nor in Russia.
The problem is we don't have any objective coverage from a third party. All information is gained either from russian or from georgian sources.

I mean I think the only people that can a true perspective on what is going on, are those that are there.

yes and actually some of them are my information sources as well, on both sides.

Juha · Aug 14, 2008

So that this will not come wholy Russian show, some links on what some Western journalist have seen around Gori:
Amid promise of peace, Georgians live in terror | World news | The Guardian
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4525573.ece
Arms drawn in tense Georgian stand-off - Times Online
Georgia: Refugees flee after Russian military breaches ceasefire - Times Online

Juha

Mitya · Aug 14, 2008

And to you a photo not from Georgia, and from South Ossetia.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 14, 2008

Mitya said:
This bloody massacre was conceived not by Russia, and not Georgia. She was conceived in the White House by the USA.

I honestly can not think of anything else to write. Oh well you are entitled to you opinion. That is all it is, since it is nothing more than an obsurd claim.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 14, 2008

Ramirezzz said:
I would say no, or at least not to 100 percent. There's a lot of decent literature regarding the Russ-Georgian relations available in Russian language ,and I'm looking now for some good English stuff.
As for actual development of the situation in Georgia, I must admit nobody has a complete picture, neither in Georgia nor in Russia.
The problem is we don't have any objective coverage from a third party. All information is gained either from russian or from georgian sources.

yes and actually some of them are my information sources as well, on both sides.

You see that is the funny thing.

When someone from the West (particularly from the US) uses the same arguement you are using when it pertains to the US, you all quickly dismiss it and say that it is either biased.

If a member of this forum says they were there (lets use Iraq for example), they are told that is not good eneogh and what they are saying can not be believed.

Lets be honest here...

Milos Sijacki · Aug 14, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
I don't see it the same way - the 1968 invasion was a blatant aggression by the Soviet Union to keep one of its satellites in place. Czechosloviakia did nothing but bring on reforms that probably would of seen her leave the iron curtain.

Georgia acted first in this incident and that's been confirmed by all sides. It was just plain dumb to roll troops into South Ossetia and think Russia wasn't going to do anything about it.

Flyboy, I couldn't agree with you more. Two completely different scenarios.

Milos Sijacki · Aug 14, 2008

Gruesome photos. The faces of war.

Erich · Aug 14, 2008

of all wars Milos, Viet Nam, the mid-east in it's many facets, Sudan, everywhere

people and usually the innocents ............ DIE

there is never anyway of getting around it

FLYBOYJ · Aug 14, 2008

Mitya said:
This bloody massacre was conceived not by Russia, and not Georgia. She was conceived in the White House by the USA.

You know Mitya, up to now I could agree with a lot of your points but that statement is flat out ignorant to the point where If I start seeing more absurd bullshit like that posted here, not only will I close this thread but I will ban people as well - I'm only saying this once.

And no - the CIA is not making me do this!

Ramirezzz · Aug 14, 2008

Dima, very touching pictures, but thanks for posting anyway. War is hell.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 14, 2008

Erich said:
of all wars Milos, Viet Nam, the mid-east in it's many facets, Sudan, everywhere

people and usually the innocents ............ DIE

there is never anyway of getting around it

Agreed.

I could post pics here that would make people puke for the next 2 hours.

Ramirezzz · Aug 14, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
You know Mitya, up to now I could agree with a lot of your points but that statement is flat out ignorant to the point where If I start seeing more absurd bullshit like that posted here, not only will I close this thread but I will ban people as well - I'm only saying this once.

And no - the CIA is not making me do this!

well I must say to our American members not all Russians share Mitya's point of view. Even if USA has clearly supported Georgian goverment since quite a long time, they warned him many times not to escalate the situation in South Ossetia. It was solely Saakashvili decision.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 14, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
You know Mitya, up to now I could agree with a lot of your points but that statement is flat out ignorant to the point where

Agreed.

When people make statements like that, they lose a lot of their credibility in my eyes.

Ramirezzz · Aug 14, 2008

Well I must say to our American members that not all Russians share Mitya's point of view. Even the USA has clearly supported the Georgian goverment since quite a long time the invasion in South Ossetia was solely Saakashvilis decision. In fact they warned him about the possible consequences.

FLYBOYJ · Aug 14, 2008

Ramirezzz said:
Well I must say to our American members that not all Russians share Mitya's point of view. Even the USA has clearly supported the Georgian goverment since quite a long time the invasion in South Ossetia was solely Saakashvilis decision. In fact they warned him about the possible consequences.

Point taken and thank you!

timshatz · Aug 14, 2008

About the pics.

It looks like the jeep type vehicle with the body next to it is the same vehicle that is burned out in later pictures.

Just an observation.

Ramirezzz · Aug 14, 2008

timshatz said:
About the pics.

It looks like the jeep type vehicle with the body next to it is the same vehicle that is burned out in later pictures.

Just an observation.

yes it's clearly the same scene. Looks like a burned out UAZ vehicle .

Mitya · Aug 14, 2008

Situation on Caucas in the picture

Ramirezzz · Aug 14, 2008

some kind of provocative pictures here. Gents, lets keep this tread civilized.

Pisis · Aug 14, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
I don't see it the same way - the 1968 invasion was a blatant aggression by the Soviet Union to keep one of its satellites in place. Czechosloviakia did nothing but bring on reforms that probably would of seen her leave the iron curtain.

Georgia acted first in this incident and that's been confirmed by all sides. It was just plain dumb to roll troops into South Ossetia and think Russia wasn't going to do anything about it.

I don't agree. Maybe the acts are not the same but very similar, especially as seen from Central European perspective.

The Soviet invasion to Czechoslovakia in August 21st 1968 was a very clear message, as well as this is a clear message. The Russians are looking for every occasion to expand their area of influence...

As well as in 1968, where the excuse was "fighting the Contra-Revolution", in 2008 they say they need to "defend Russian civilians" (to wit holder of passports of the Russian Federation). Nothing about that - I agrre - if this would be only honest. It is quite obvious that this is an inderict reacton to Kosovo and US radar base in the Czech Republic and Poland.

The Gerogians were just trying to keep order in their sovereign territory = South Osetia and it's not Russia's business.

I'm very neutral in this conflict, becauee none of the sides have the right to act as they had acted but I'm quite sceptic to Russia. The 40th anniversary of ocuppation of my country is coming (21st Aug) and it is still alive here...

Georgia and Russia at war.

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