evangilder
"Shooter"
One guy's opinion. Did he back any of that up with any verifiable facts? I sure as hell didn't see anything factual.
Georgia and Russia at war.
- Thread starter rochie
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One guy's opinion. Did he back any of that up with any verifiable facts? I sure as hell didn't see anything factual.
- Thread starter
- #162
i was watching russia today as all this started they had a big banner headline "THE WAR IS ON".
but i expect it was the same on the georgian side.
the more i see on this situation the more it seems pre planned from both sides and not something that just kicked off overnight !
i've heard reports of 4 georgian navy ships being sunk by the russians
just saw this on sky not sure this is gonna stop any time soon
Georgia-Russia Fighting Over Province Of South Ossetia Claims More Lives | World News | Sky News
It's the US's fault?! Right. Might as well blame it on Martians.
Question is, will the Russians stop after taking South Ossetia or will they go straight into Georgia. If they stop at the S.O. border, then this thing is over and not much else (beyond the usual diplomatic mumbo jumbo) will happen.
But if they go into Georgia, then it gets sticky. No idea where it will end there. Don't think there is much Georgia can do about this. The Russians are way more powerful.
Question is, will the Russians stop after taking South Ossetia or will they go straight into Georgia. If they stop at the S.O. border, then this thing is over and not much else (beyond the usual diplomatic mumbo jumbo) will happen.
But if they go into Georgia, then it gets sticky. No idea where it will end there. Don't think there is much Georgia can do about this. The Russians are way more powerful.
- Thread starter
- #164
i think they've already gone past the border into georgia timshatz
Oh boy. If that is true, it would be very bad for Georgia.
Well starting to look like Russia may want Georgia back I guess the Ukraine could be next in a few years ,if they look to join NATO?Russia is outside of disputed areas now.
In Tbilisi, Georgia, a Defense Ministry spokeswoman says Russian armored vehicles have rolled into a Georgian military base in western Georgia.
Spokeswoman Nana Intskerveli told the Associated Press that Russian armored vehicles seized the Georgian military base in the town of Senaki.
The statement indicates Russian troops have entered Georgia beyond the disputed territories and that they arrived from separatist province of Abkhazia.
FOXNews.com - Russia Reportedly Seeks NATO Meeting Over Georgia Crisis - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
Another indication of the same motive all SO was a reason to go that's why the troops and tanks were present I think
He charged that Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, had said as much Sunday morning in a telephone conversation with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, telling her "that the democratically elected president of Georgia 'must go,' " Mr. Khalilzad said. Mr. Khalilzad said the comment was "completely unacceptable."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/w...partner=MYWAY&ei=5065&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
In Tbilisi, Georgia, a Defense Ministry spokeswoman says Russian armored vehicles have rolled into a Georgian military base in western Georgia.
Spokeswoman Nana Intskerveli told the Associated Press that Russian armored vehicles seized the Georgian military base in the town of Senaki.
The statement indicates Russian troops have entered Georgia beyond the disputed territories and that they arrived from separatist province of Abkhazia.
FOXNews.com - Russia Reportedly Seeks NATO Meeting Over Georgia Crisis - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
Another indication of the same motive all SO was a reason to go that's why the troops and tanks were present I think
He charged that Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, had said as much Sunday morning in a telephone conversation with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, telling her "that the democratically elected president of Georgia 'must go,' " Mr. Khalilzad said. Mr. Khalilzad said the comment was "completely unacceptable."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/w...partner=MYWAY&ei=5065&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
There really isn't much to stop the Russians going pretty much anywhere they please. Georgia, as I understand it from a couple of ex-military that trained their forces, really doesn't have much with which to fight.
I also don't think anyone is going to get involved much beyond the diplomatic front.
The only force that can stop the Russians right now is the Russians themselves. IMHO.
I also don't think anyone is going to get involved much beyond the diplomatic front.
The only force that can stop the Russians right now is the Russians themselves. IMHO.
I think their objective is to make as much damage to the Georgia's army and military installations as possible. So far it doesent sound like Russians want to capture all Georgia's territory and control it. They just want to either disarm or destroy georgian troops to prevent future agressions on Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
Is a fact that Georgia has recently been filled with all sorts of weaponry and become the most militarized country in the region that gave them a feeling of superiority and sparked wiolence on 08.08.08
The Russian armies do not pass territory of Georgia, according to the application of the Joint Staff. Bases, warehouses, an infrastructure of the Georgian army are exposed to bombardments only.
Yesterday 4 Georgian boats have crossed a safety zone and have intruded territorial waters of Abkhazia. They attacked the Russian ships. As a result of reciprocal fire one boat has been destroyed, and others 3 have disappeared. Boats belonged to navy fleet of Georgia.
That you have told, if the ships of Iran fleet the USA, for example, attacked? You would not began to answer fire? Yes they would answer them on the approach. Our fleet operated according to an item 51 United Nations.
And now to martians.
And who you think began war? How many Russia warned Georgia, what the force decision of the conflict can result in accident? South Ossetia and Abkhazia a part of the Georgian territory? You are sure in it? More than 90 % of citizens of these not recognized republics - Citizens of Russia. We cannot and we have no the right to protect the citizens? If Mexico will tell, what the state Texas their territory and will intrude on territory the USA it how to name? Марсианство? Why Georgia has opened fire on peacefully sleeping city at night? You saw the staff of Tskhinvali? Cities are not present... And they shot not from automatic devices and machine guns, and with GRAD's and heavy artillery. It is normal? Normally, when armed forces of Georgia finished the wounded Russian peacemakers? Normally, when our peacemakers shot from tanks of a straight line наводкой? And if it were peacemakers of the NATO? Then you at once would howl: how so it is possible? And all in this spirit. Why the mass-media of the West were silent in the first 2 days of the Georgian approach? And now, when the Georgian army is superseded by the Russian army abroad safety zones, it already aggression of Russia? Why those parts which aggressors have come to the aid of peacemakers who operate according to the mandate of the United Nations? Territory of Georgia who did not grasp. And would present that was, if on a place of the Russian peacemakers there were peacemakers of the NATO? You would not answer with impact for death of the peacemakers? Or you thought, what our peacemakers at a kind of the opponent would run up as yours in 1999 in former Yugoslavia? So it when will not be!
And now ask at своеого managementsas tax bearers: and how many our money cunningly on support of Georgia? The military budget of Georgia has grown in 30 times!!! All means, arms, the form and other are bought on the American money. At Ukraine, Poland, Czechia, Israel... The USA 10 years delivered arms and an ammunition to Georgia, trained her army. And money whence? In fact not for simple so all this is made... It refers to democracy? When from 100 thousand osset for some days of fights it is killed more than 2000 person, 34000 became refugees, many villages are destroyed... It is democracy? So Georgia subordinates to itself territory? In South Ossetia and Abkhazia passed not how many referenda on which more than 90 % of the population have supported independence. Why the osset and Abkhasians Georgia does not take into account opinion? Why Russia has not the right to protect the citizens as a result of aggression of Georgia? Unless it not a genocide? When the purposes of the Georgian aircraft and artillery are not armed forces of Ossetia, and city and village? It how to name?
And video which was distributed by Georgians? Where soldiers shoot at the unarmed person, but do not get and shoot at a dog? It that? It how to name?
And as you estimate that orthodox Georgians сожгли in Хетагурово a temple with people. In village Hetagurovo of South Ossetia temple Пресвятой of the Virgin is burnt. This unique orthodox temple of X century was a monument of a history of South Ossetia, one of its{her} spiritual centers. Inside a temple remains of old men are found out. On August, 8, as a result of fierce resistance all defenders of village have fallen. During fight old men from village have decided to be covered in a temple. People, probably, hoped the Divine protection, that the Georgian soldiers who too, like, count itself orthodox people, do not touch them in a temple. However it was found out, that the Georgian armies alive сожгли people together with a temple. The Georgian soldiers have taken away the big group of young women of village Hetagurova in a unknown direction. Участь them it is unknown. As informed REGNUM referring to eyewitnesses earlier, the Georgian soldiers have outraged upon group of girls. In the same settlement pressed people caterpillars{tracks} of tanks. The part of the inhabitants which have escaped in a wood was rescued only. In total sat totaled 170 court yard. We shall remind, it was earlier informed, that the Georgian militarians have destroyed a chapel and a memorial cemetery in a court yard of high school № 5. As eyewitness Inal Puhaev has told, the Georgian tank has purposefully stopped opposite to school in which court yard defenders Tshinvali of 1992 are buried and began shooting. " The tank shots has literally ploughed the ground, разворотил tombs, has tumbled down memorial stones, in a court yard of school has destroyed a chapel. Then he destroyed разворотил all under wheels of the tracks ", - has told Inal Puhaev. It refers to democracy? These are armed forces of a democratic civilized country? Why West does not count it for a genocide? What then to consider a genocide? Captured Georgian militarians have declared, that at them the order to destroy all was. They also destroyed: women, children, old men... It not ethnic cleanings? This establishment of democracy yes?
Why after all what has conceived a management of Georgia, has no right to protect the citizens?
You think Russia war at her borders is necessary?
Ten years of the country of the West armed and prepared for Georgia for war. And what for? For what? Can to clear territory of Abkhazia and South Ossetia of citizens?
And now Georgia poor lamb which has attacked a furious bear?
Why till now any country of the West has not offered even rendering of the humanitarian help Southern - Ossetiya? Why?
To you of a picture. Can so it becomes clear...
Attachments
JugBR
Staff Sergeant
russians claims that georgia announce a cease-fire once then disrespected the agreement. so now russians only will accept the cease-fire over their own conditions wich means the total evacutation of georgian security forces from s. ossetia.
Milos Sijacki said:
Woh now! Who said anything about hate here. Man you really are showing your true colors!
No ****, what are you trying to prove? If you go back and read all my posts I am not blaming the Russians here. I said I am not going to pass any judgement until I know all the facts, and right now I do not know all the facts. Neither do you...
I am sure if you would sit down and actually read what everyone is saying, they are saying the same thing. Dont jump to conclusions my friend.
No one here is point the finger at anyone, yet...
Interesting thanks. It is great to havesome over in that region with a bit more perspective. Keep up posted on knews and your thoughts.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Let's put this in perspective....
Mitya brings up some good points of what's happening and I just read another article backing up his post.
Georgia - 200 years of Russian rule, part of the former Soviet Union, breaks away when the Soviet Union breaks up. Georgians probably not always treated that well by the Russians and shows defiance by embracing the west (NATO membership request, cozying up to the US, etc.)
South Ossetia – predominately Russian and seems to want to stay aligned with Russia. As stated, residents never granted Georgian citizenship and was basically in limbo since 1993 - possible strategic territory. Russia may be inflaming the situation by handing out passports.
Georgia - rolls military hardware into South Ossetia unprovoked, not a smart move.
Russia retaliates - what would one expect?
US and Western European Politicians rattling swords and rhetoric are high.
Personally I think its a regional issue - I have no problem with the US supporting or arming a former Soviet republic, but when one of those republics engages in an "offensive" action against Russia, for what ever reason, I think it shows a large amount of stupidity.
The situation could of been handled better by both sides but in all honesty the cartoon with the bear posted by Mitya sums it up. I would not blame Georgia for defending itself if it was first attacked by Russia but it was Georgia who took the first aggressive step, a mis-step in my opinion and now Georgia will pay the price.
Everyone else needs to keep clear of this clearly regional issue IMO.
Mitya brings up some good points of what's happening and I just read another article backing up his post.
Georgia - 200 years of Russian rule, part of the former Soviet Union, breaks away when the Soviet Union breaks up. Georgians probably not always treated that well by the Russians and shows defiance by embracing the west (NATO membership request, cozying up to the US, etc.)
South Ossetia – predominately Russian and seems to want to stay aligned with Russia. As stated, residents never granted Georgian citizenship and was basically in limbo since 1993 - possible strategic territory. Russia may be inflaming the situation by handing out passports.
Georgia - rolls military hardware into South Ossetia unprovoked, not a smart move.
Russia retaliates - what would one expect?
US and Western European Politicians rattling swords and rhetoric are high.
Personally I think its a regional issue - I have no problem with the US supporting or arming a former Soviet republic, but when one of those republics engages in an "offensive" action against Russia, for what ever reason, I think it shows a large amount of stupidity.
The situation could of been handled better by both sides but in all honesty the cartoon with the bear posted by Mitya sums it up. I would not blame Georgia for defending itself if it was first attacked by Russia but it was Georgia who took the first aggressive step, a mis-step in my opinion and now Georgia will pay the price.
Everyone else needs to keep clear of this clearly regional issue IMO.
There is some speculation that the Russians are trying to build a buffer zone between Ossetia and Georgia (using Georgian territory to do it). If so, this thing will not have much longer to go.
Depends on how much further into Georgia the Russians continue. Should know in a couple of days.
Depends on how much further into Georgia the Russians continue. Should know in a couple of days.
It is impossible to solve such problems force. I about a situation with South Ossetia and Georgia. In fact will not send, for example, U.K. to Ireland the armies completely to destroy the population of that territory. Or Spain with Basques. The Spanish management does not give an order to destroy the population of that territory. All occurs in a peace channel, and the president of Georgia has acted, we shall softly tell, silly, having tried to untie the next war on Caucasus. Very silly.
JugBR
Staff Sergeant
hey flyboy, lets see your knowloges about international history:
do you know what important soviet person born in georgia ?
clue: when young, he studied to be priest. people in west hate him, but needed him once.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Easy - Iosef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili - AKA Stalin... 8)
Hello Flyboyj
I would not say that Georgian invasion to SO was unprovocated. How much there was provocation, i don't know. Anyway, Georgian attack was very stupid move.
If one wants info on the conflict, day by day timeline and some reasons to the slide to the war, here is one version:
2008 South Ossetia war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Juha
I would not say that Georgian invasion to SO was unprovocated. How much there was provocation, i don't know. Anyway, Georgian attack was very stupid move.
If one wants info on the conflict, day by day timeline and some reasons to the slide to the war, here is one version:
2008 South Ossetia war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Juha
