kiwimac
Staff Sergeant
Damme! If it weren't for the Empire, where would you all be now, eh? Facing some damn Johnny with a bayonet as they rape our towns and pillage our women!!
Kiwimac
Kiwimac
Gloster Gladiator....useful or Useless?
- Thread starter bronzewhaler82
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #22
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
None taken - no-one knows everything 
Don't know about the US, but in Canada (Ontario at least) IIRC all the history that is mandatory is Canadian history except for one class that is early 20th century (1900-1945 or a bit after I think). And I know there's an optional US History class, but I don't know what other history courses are offered.
cheddar cheese
Major General
seriously, i aint head anything that funny for weeks, cheers, my day needed brightning like that
- Thread starter
- #25
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
Back on the subject of this thread..the Gladiator, its actually a fact (for the critics of this plane) that the only V.C to be awarded to a fighter pilot in the RAF during WW2 was won by a Gladiator pliot! (SO there Kiwi! 8) )
8) )- Thread starter
- #27
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
Though your point is interesting - it does grieve me deeply to disagree with you old friend - i couldn't agree more that the Biplanes were fantastic BUT some aircraft were really really bad and do deserve a good slagging off - the Russian TB3 bomber for a start was woefully inadequate for WW2 so was anything made by the French
kiwimac
Staff Sergeant
Oh, I don't know Whaler
The Dewotine D520 was at least usable not like the MS 406. In fact the Luftwaffe flew captured D520's during the first 3 or so years of WW2.
Kiwimac
The Dewotine D520 was at least usable not like the MS 406. In fact the Luftwaffe flew captured D520's during the first 3 or so years of WW2.
Kiwimac
kiwimac
Staff Sergeant
And one or two of the Bregeut fighters as well
Kiwimac
Kiwimac
- Thread starter
- #30
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
I was reading an interesting article about Gloster Gladiators the other day....
Even though they never fought in the Pacific war with Japan and America the first victims of the Gladiator were the Japanese navy air force...at the hands of the Chinese air force in 1938 during the Chinese skirmishes with Japan.
Two Chinese squadrons (28th and 29th Pursuit Squadrons) were equipped with about 30 Gladiators and engaged the Japanese throughout 1938 - and into the early years of Chinas war with Japan (with the Allies) in the early 40's
one of the very first Gladiator 'Aces' was a Chinaman called Capt Arthur Chin Shui-Tin Hankow who during an airbattle with Japanese A5M fighters (the predecessor to the A6M 'Zero') rescued his wingman who was being pursued by four A5M's - the captain shot down one the pursuers enabling his wingman to escape but was then turned on by the three remaining A5M's who proceeded to line up behind him and take turns at shooting at him - Shui-Tin's Gladiator was badly damaged and had it not been for a makeshift metal plate he had installed in his cockpit that he had salvaged from an I-15 he most likely would've been killed by this barrage - as it was he rammed one of his attackers in order to escape - the plane he rammed was destroyed as well as his own (his gladiator lost both its lower and upper wing on the right-hand side of his aircraft) Shui-Tin was unable to control his badly damaged aircraft and after experiencing some difficulty he finally managed to get unstrapped and bailed out.
Later in the same year he wasn't so lucky - he was shot down by a group of A5M fighters whilst escorting a Russian bomber over China in his Gladiator. He bailed out but was shot at by the A5M Pilots and had to pretend to be dead - despite his lucky escape he suffered horrendous burns and was evacuated to Hong Kong for treatment (which he later fled from when the Japanese invaded) He returned to China where he spent the rest of the war fighting the Japanese airforce (which by now was equipped with 'Zero' fighters) the finished the war as the highest ranking ace in China during World War 2....The end 8)
Even though they never fought in the Pacific war with Japan and America the first victims of the Gladiator were the Japanese navy air force...at the hands of the Chinese air force in 1938 during the Chinese skirmishes with Japan.
Two Chinese squadrons (28th and 29th Pursuit Squadrons) were equipped with about 30 Gladiators and engaged the Japanese throughout 1938 - and into the early years of Chinas war with Japan (with the Allies) in the early 40's
one of the very first Gladiator 'Aces' was a Chinaman called Capt Arthur Chin Shui-Tin Hankow who during an airbattle with Japanese A5M fighters (the predecessor to the A6M 'Zero') rescued his wingman who was being pursued by four A5M's - the captain shot down one the pursuers enabling his wingman to escape but was then turned on by the three remaining A5M's who proceeded to line up behind him and take turns at shooting at him - Shui-Tin's Gladiator was badly damaged and had it not been for a makeshift metal plate he had installed in his cockpit that he had salvaged from an I-15 he most likely would've been killed by this barrage - as it was he rammed one of his attackers in order to escape - the plane he rammed was destroyed as well as his own (his gladiator lost both its lower and upper wing on the right-hand side of his aircraft) Shui-Tin was unable to control his badly damaged aircraft and after experiencing some difficulty he finally managed to get unstrapped and bailed out.
Later in the same year he wasn't so lucky - he was shot down by a group of A5M fighters whilst escorting a Russian bomber over China in his Gladiator. He bailed out but was shot at by the A5M Pilots and had to pretend to be dead - despite his lucky escape he suffered horrendous burns and was evacuated to Hong Kong for treatment (which he later fled from when the Japanese invaded) He returned to China where he spent the rest of the war fighting the Japanese airforce (which by now was equipped with 'Zero' fighters) the finished the war as the highest ranking ace in China during World War 2....The end
8)- Thread starter
- #31
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
Not til the fat lady sings chump...and thankfully we don't have a smiley for that yet! just cos C.C and Lanc have invaded and filled this forum with their spam doesn't mean its worn out - besides you called yourself a gladiator fan so why don't you put something in? or are you too busy with your new fav plane the Ju88? (no i'm not jealous! )
just cos C.C and Lanc have invaded and filled this forum with their spam doesn't mean its worn out - besides you called yourself a gladiator fan so why don't you put something in? or are you too busy with your new fav plane the Ju88? (no i'm not jealous! )- Thread starter
- #32
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
And this is your friendly neighbourhood Moderator kindly requesting that the spam takes a break for a while and we get back on topic..... 8)
Would biplanes still have had a place during the later years of WW2 if they had had a more powerful engine and better weapons?
It seems to me alot of Biplanes (I'll use the Gladiator as an example cos its my fav biplane and its appropriate to this thread )
could've been put to better use if they had had a better top speed than about 250mph and had more than a few machine guns for armament
You design some kind of Biplane with cannons fixed (i doubt the wings could take the stress so it would have to be in some sort of reinforced fusealage) and a top speed of about 320mph coupled with the turning circle and general manouvorability of a biplane (which IMO is better than a monoplane) then you might have a lethal combination...opinions? (constructive ones please )
Would biplanes still have had a place during the later years of WW2 if they had had a more powerful engine and better weapons?
It seems to me alot of Biplanes (I'll use the Gladiator as an example cos its my fav biplane and its appropriate to this thread
)could've been put to better use if they had had a better top speed than about 250mph and had more than a few machine guns for armament
You design some kind of Biplane with cannons fixed (i doubt the wings could take the stress so it would have to be in some sort of reinforced fusealage) and a top speed of about 320mph coupled with the turning circle and general manouvorability of a biplane (which IMO is better than a monoplane) then you might have a lethal combination...opinions? (constructive ones please
)- Thread starter
- #34
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
Rell said:
Not quite the same - Vinal records were replaced by cassete tapes before Cds... 8)
but i do see the point you are trying to make but the biplanes were still useful in later years but just small details kept them down (poor weapons, speed and armour) planes can be improved - a biplane has EXCELLENT manouvorability - the kind you can only get with 2 wings so i was just saying maybe they could've been used more effectively? bring back the triplanes I say!!
cheddar cheese
Major General
and me
I have to agree with rell....The aircraft today has evolutionised (If it is such a word) from the old classics that we talk about in here. To say that a triplane would be of use in nowadays i personally think is a ridiculous statement. Of course they would be of no use...unless, they had better arnaments, more speed etc....but then you keep perfecting and you end up with modern day aircraft (which is of course improving all the time).
cheddar cheese
Major General
good point...... i still want them back though 
8)
8)- Thread starter
- #38
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
jj1982 said:
I actually said - biplanes in the late years of WW2 - not these days!
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
you know i think that everything has to accept defeat and move aside gracefully when something better comes along, i mean if biplanes werwe so god would they have been replaced in the first case?
- Thread starter
- #40
bronzewhaler82
Senior Airman
- 661
- Feb 19, 2004
I'm not sure exactly - mainly down to science i think - a stressed fabric skin was needed for biplane use because it was light BUT was crap in terms of armament 
A machine gun or cannon could punch through it no problem - but if you made the wings out of a heavier, better armoured material (such as steel) the weight would have a detrimental effect on the planes performance because remember the upper wing is largely supported by the lower wing. basically in english: it would screw up the planes manouvorability and at high speeds-i.e when diving to escape someone - the wings might break off - which is obviously not a good thing
plus huge steel wings would slow the plane down meaning it would have to have a bigger engine..now thats when i run out of steam..why couldn't a bigger better engine be built onto the biplane...i must say i suspect its again down to weight etc - a fabric built aircraft supported by a light steel and wooden frame could only support so much weight and a larger engine may have been too much - i'm willing to admit I could be complately wrong about this so if anyone knows otherwsie please feel free to shoot me down - cheers!
- a stressed fabric skin was needed for biplane use because it was light BUT was crap in terms of armament A machine gun or cannon could punch through it no problem - but if you made the wings out of a heavier, better armoured material (such as steel) the weight would have a detrimental effect on the planes performance because remember the upper wing is largely supported by the lower wing. basically in english: it would screw up the planes manouvorability and at high speeds-i.e when diving to escape someone - the wings might break off - which is obviously not a good thing
plus huge steel wings would slow the plane down meaning it would have to have a bigger engine..now thats when i run out of steam..why couldn't a bigger better engine be built onto the biplane...i must say i suspect its again down to weight etc - a fabric built aircraft supported by a light steel and wooden frame could only support so much weight and a larger engine may have been too much - i'm willing to admit I could be complately wrong about this so if anyone knows otherwsie please feel free to shoot me down - cheers!
