Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained) (5 Viewers)

[Shortround6]

Looks like it maybe had lees of a CG problem. Look where the cockpit has been located. And, it has a 4-bladed prop.

Both bode well for improved CG range conducive to controlled flight after the ammunition ballast has been jettisoned.

Seems like this was the Gudkov Gu-1. They made one and it crashed on its first flight. No further details except weights. Without wing area, weight, engine power, and airfoil, it's hard to say anything about this airplane.

Except it would have made a great long range escort, just look at that room behind the engine for fuel.

Just use more nose armor to get the CG to work out, and shift the radio.

 

[buffnut453]

Except it would have made a great long range escort, just look at that room behind the engine for fuel.

Just use more nose armor to get the CG to work out, and shift the radio.

That's all well and good but what about the cabin heater?

 

[SaparotRob]

That's all well and good but what about the cabin heater?

Somebody trying to break a contract?

 

[pbehn]

View attachment 642326

While looking at more info about the notorious flop that was the Lagg-3 (the early series makes the P-39D look like a P-51D), i looked up and found this, with almost no mention other than the designer Gurdkov falling in disgrace after the test pilot got killed testing this thing:
A P-39 clone !
I wonder what you guys think about the soviets wanting to clone the P-39 of all things.
Would this clone include propeller gear armor?

Thats a cool looking plane with one of those cool engines that didnt require air intakes or radiators.

 

[special ed]

Why would the Soviets waste the time and materials for clones when they could simply ask for more and more P-39s and eventually P-63s?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[gumbyk]

Why would the Soviets waste the time and materials for clones when they could simply ask for more and more P-39s and eventually P-63s?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Because then you're indebted to a temporary ally. As it was the lend lease debts weren't settled until 1972.

Lend Lease claims against the former Soviet Union arising from World War II were settled in a 1972 agreement between the U.S. and U.S.S.R.

Office of Development Finance, Bureau of Economic and Business Affairs: War-Related Debts of Other Countries to the U.S. Government

Fact Sheet by the Office Office of Development Finance, Bureau of Economic and Business Affairs: War-Related Debts of Other Countries to the U.S. Government

1997-2001.state.gov

 

[Escuadrilla Azul]

This month is Halloween month, so I will take the risk of waking up a zombie.

Just finished going all the 202 pages of the groundhog thread (took some time). I manage to learn some things:

- The P-39 wasn't that bad, but the useful combat envelope was so limited that only the soviets could use it. Any other allied nation had more suited planes at hand for their needs.

- It had no room for any breakthrough improvement. The only way forward was a new plane, hence the P-63, but it was too late and too little to warrant supply disruption.

- The british were eager to pick any chance to break contracts and deals (in this case, for an unknown reason). Been spanish, not very surprising news (with love to our british members ), but seems that the poor americans were caught off guard . Same on you naughty perfidious Albion.

- Learnt a lot about CoG, water injection, assembling and disassembling cockpit seats, forgotten tools on planes (seems like Boeing was just following industry wide practices ) and, above all, about cockpit heaters and back pain induced by front armour removal.

- But I think the most shocking is my inner conviction that the expert in the groundhog plane must be one of those more more fervently against himself. There is no other way that someone would remain so stubborn in the face of overwhelming facts, willing to endure such a beating while remaning so calm. Surely it's a troll, but one that must know you all and he is LOL every time he gets an furious answer.

 

[vikingBerserker]

 

[pbehn]

This month is Halloween month, so I will take the risk of waking up a zombie.
Just finished going all the 202 pages of the groundhog thread (took some time). I manage to learn some things:
- The P-39 wasn't that bad, but the useful combat envelope was so limited that only the soviets could use it. Any other allied nation had more suited planes at hand for their needs.
- It had no room for any breakthrough improvement. The only way forward was a new plane, hence the P-63, but it was too late and too little to warrant supply disruption.
- The british were eager to pick any chance to break contracts and deals (in this case, for an unknown reason). Been spanish, not very surprising news (with love to our british members ), but seems that the poor americans were caught off guard . Same on you naughty perfidious Albion.

- Learnt a lot about CoG, water injection, assembling and disassembling cockpit seats, forgotten tools on planes (seems like Boeing was just following industry wide practices ) and, above all, about cockpit heaters and back pain induced by front armour removal.
- But I think the most shocking is my inner conviction that the expert in the groundhog plane must be one of those more more fervently against himself. There is no other way that someone would remain so stubborn in the face of overwhelming facts, willing to endure such a beating while remaning so calm. Surely it's a troll, but one that must know you all and he is LOL every time he gets an furious answer.

If you read the whole thread and still post this, I think it's time to just let it go.

 

[GrauGeist]

 

[vikingBerserker]

LMAO, that's awesome!

 

[nuuumannn]

You've won the internet today, my friend...

 

[Peter Gunn]

Hogan's Heros, one of the best shows EVER.

 

[SaparotRob]

My friend and I used to play Hogan's Heroes when I was in the 6th grade. His portrayal of Col. Klink was amazing.

 

[Conslaw]

My friend and I used to play Hogan's Heroes when I was in the 6th grade. His portrayal of Col. Klink was amazing.

Ha ha, on my street in 6th grade we played Wild Wild West, the fights were better. I do owe Hogans Heroes my first theatrical role. In high school they needed somebody to do a german accent to play Rudolph, the head waiter of the Harmonia Gardens restaurant in "Hello Dolly". I did a slightly modified General Burkhalter impression and got the role.

 

[DarrenW]

See the chart in post #869. 38000ft ceiling and 31000ft combat ceiling. Better than P-40, P-51A, F4F, F4U, F6F, FW190, Typhoon, A6M2 and Ki-43. About the same as P-38F/G, P-47C and Me109G and better climb below 30000ft. Not as good as Spitfire IX. That about covers it for 1942/43 fighters.

P-39N had a higher rated engine than the vastly overweight P-400s rejected by the UK.

I'm trying to find this chart in post #869 but came up empty. Does anyone know where it possibly went?

And I apologize in advance to those who would like to have seen this thread die a thousand horrible deaths a thousand or so posts ago...

 

[SaparotRob]

They're baaaaack.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I'm trying to find this chart in post #869 but came up empty. Does anyone know where it possibly went?

And I apologize in advance to those who would like to have seen this thread die a thousand horrible deaths a thousand or so posts ago...

You sure it was 869?

 

[DarrenW]

You sure it was 869?

I was going by what the 'expert' said but it's probably a typo. Couldn't find it anywhere.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I was going by what the 'expert' said but it's probably a typo. Couldn't find it anywhere.

Post 869

Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

Only the USAAF employed two-stage supercharged heavy bombers with high altitude capability as "the norm." While the USAAF heavy bombers took some heavy losses, the losses would have been crippling had they not had that capability. The USN used some B-17's and B-24's with that capability only...

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