Hitler called the Lorenz code his geheimnis schreiber or secrets writer/diary. But he didnt know it was being broken. As you obviously know (but others dont seem to) the effort taken to mislead Adolf as to where allied forces were and what they intended to do was a war in itself. On D-Day Ike and Monty had all the German forces order of battle in front of them from Lorenz and this went on up to the end of the war.
Groundhog Thread v. 2.0 - The most important battle of WW2 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NightHawk
- Start date
ThomasP
Chief Master Sergeant
Hey ljadw,
The Wiki link "Second Happy Time - Wikipedia" has a detailed timeline of what happened during 'The Second Happy Time' aka 'Operation Drumbeat', along with a fair explanation of the reasons. It would (I think) answer some of your questions.
The Wiki link "Second Happy Time - Wikipedia" has a detailed timeline of what happened during 'The Second Happy Time' aka 'Operation Drumbeat', along with a fair explanation of the reasons. It would (I think) answer some of your questions.
Type VII submarine - Wikipedia
Performance of the most produced U Boat below, a Liberty ship did 11.5kts. There were many things Doenitz couldnt do with his U Boats when forced to be submerged.
If the Germans knew the date and time of Overlord, Overlord would still be a big success .
And, mostly the enemy is not telling you exactly what they are up to ,because he doesn't know it himself .
Knowing where the opposition is ,is only important if the opposition can do something :and on the average, Doenitz could not do much ,because he did not know where the opposition was .The opposition was hided by the ocean .
Approximately is useless :a submarine had to know where exactly the convoy was and would be . And let's not forget the escorts, speed ,ammunition ,fuel ,...
The deception plan around D-Day had Hitler holding tanks and other assets in reserve waiting for the main strike in the Pas de Calais, the daft corporal was told exactly what wouldnt happen and he believed it. He gave one spy (Garbo) who was feeding him complete nonsense the Iron Cross in July 1944 while the British gave him an MBE for the same work in November 1944.
Operation Fortitude - Wikipedia
Juan Pujol García - Wikipedia
Less supply losses and less losses of MV do NOT mean more imports : it was not Doenitz who decided how much and what would be imported .
1940 : supply and food imports : 41,4 million ton .
1941 : 29,7 million ton
1942 : 22,1 million ton
1943 : 24,3 million ton
1944 :22,8 million ton .
In 1944 the U Boat danger was lower than in 1941,and the result was that the imports decreased .
In 1941 the losses were lower than in 1940 ,but yet the imports also were lower .
This means that there is no causal relation between the losses and the imports and this means that the importance of the Battle of The Atlantic has been much exaggerated .
So if the position is wrong by 10 meters the convoy isnt there? Dont remind me of what others and myself have reminded you as if it is knowledge.
Did Germany invading Russia and Pearl Harbour affect things? Asking for a friend.
NO : Hitler did not think that the main strike would happen in the Pas de Calais, besides his reserves were located in Normandy . 15th Army was mostly ''bodenständige 'divisions who were useless in Normandy ,which was one of the reasons they were in thee Pas de Calais .The deception plan around D-Day had Hitler holding tanks and other assets in reserve waiting for the main strike in the Pas de Calais, the daft corporal was told exactly what wouldnt happen and he believed it. He gave one spy (Garbo) who was feeding him complete nonsense the Iron Cross in July 1944 while the British gave him an MBE for the same work in November 1944.
Operation Fortitude - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Juan Pujol García - Wikipedia
Yes he did, read the article, that is exactly what he said to the Japanese ambassador and what happened. I am getting a little tired of you refusing to read anything that goes against your opinion.
From the previous links.
The Allies were able to judge how well Fortitude worked because of Ultra, the signals intelligence that was obtained by breaking German codes and ciphers. On June 1, a decrypted transmission by Hiroshi Ōshima, the Japanese ambassador, to his government that recounted a recent conversation with Hitler confirmed the effectiveness of Fortitude. When asked for Hitler's thoughts on the Allied battle plan, he had said, "I think that diversionary actions will take place in a number of places – against Norway, Denmark, the southern part of western France, and the French Mediterranean coast",[27] and he added that he expected the Allies would then attack in force across the Strait of Dover.[27]
OKW accepted Garbo's reports so completely that they kept two armoured divisions and 19 infantry divisions in the Pas de Calais waiting for a second invasion through July and August 1944. The German Commander-in-Chief in the west, Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt, refused to allow General Erwin Rommel to move these divisions to Normandy.[4] There were more German troops in the Pas de Calais region two months after the Normandy invasion than there had been on D-Day.[42]
PH (8 December 1941 ) and Barbarossa did not affect the Atlantic convoys in 1941 : PQ convoys were very limited ,besides the US Atlantic Fleet was not going to the Pacific in 1942.
The decrease of British imports in 1944 was decided by Britain and the US ,independently of the number of operating U Boats . And the main reason was : Overlord .
Funny I thought USA Canada and UK started sending things to the Soviet Union not UK, like P-39s and tanks.
If that was what Hitler was thinking ,explain me why he kept the majority of his mobile forces OUTSIDE the Pas de Calais .PzL, 12 SS and 21 Pz were located left of the Seine .
And, which were the 2 PzD in the Pas de Calais ?
Capturing ports in France and Italy didnt affect British imports of USA military supplies?
He kept them away from where they could be bombed, the idea being to move mobile forces at the time of any attack. There is no doubt Hitler believed it, no point in discussing it further, or introducing other factoids.
If he believed it, why did Das Reich ,located at Toulouse, receive the order on June 6 to go to ..Normandy ?
Why did he transfer 2 PzD (9 and 10 SS ) from the East to ...Normandy ?
Why did he order the second tank battalion of Panzer Lehr that was moving to the East on June 6 ,to return ...to Normandy ?
What he said to the Japanese ambassador ( if we may believe the Japanese ambassador ) was contradicted by what he did .
The German strategy was not dictated by Fortitude,not by the belief of a main attack ( a diversionary attack was as dangerous as a main attack ) but by the FACT that,as the French in 1940, Germany had to defend the whole coast of Western and Northern and Southern Europe .The allies could attack everywhere ,especially where there were no or few Germans .
The Pas de Calais did not receive any reinforcements after D Day,for the simple reason that there was no landing at the Pas de Calais .
The reinforcements were sent to where there was fighting .
There were several attacks which resulted in big losses,but the number of lost U Boats is irrelevant .
The principle of the attacks is questionable, as no attacks would not improve the Allied situation : a submarine fleet in being could be as efficient as a submarine fleet searching, mostly without results,for convoys .
For the rest, I repeat what C.Blair, a well known expert,said :
''Doenitz had not good intelligence ,thus the importance of rerouting is very questionable
Wolf packs were mostly failures
There was no possibility for the U Boats to strangle Britain.''
During almost 6 years the submarines were searching for convoys, mostly without any success .
When they found some convoys, mostly they could not attack them .
When they attacked them,they suffered heavy losses while inflicting few losses .
Conclusion : Doenitz failed totally .
He could have left his U Boats in the harbours and the result would not have been much different .
Only irrelevant to you because what you consider relevant is only that which supports your idea of the day.
