How crazy is the Catholic Church

Discussion in 'OFF-Topic / Misc.' started by tango35, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. tango35

    tango35 Member

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    Hello folks, at first i dont want to offend in his religious behaviour, but maybe you have read or seen on TV the story about the 9 year old girl who was raped through the last 3 years and now she was pregnant with twins. The twins were aborted in a clinic otherwise the girl would suffer and die.
    Now a crazy bishop excomunicated the girl, her family and the the people who made the abortion, and he said he had to this and he ( the catholic church ) had to save the life of the unborn twins instead of the mother.
    How crazy is this ?

    A 9 year old girl who was raped will be a second time treated in a bad way by her church. For my opinion this is darkest medieaval age thinking.

    In my opinion this bishop should shut up his face and think before he says such nonsense.
    It can be discussed if abortion is the right way but not if a child is involved or if the femals person becomes pregnant by rape; than is only her decision and not a dicision of a court or the church.

    greets

    Thomas
     
  2. 109ROAMING

    109ROAMING Active Member

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    What The ......:shock:

    9:shock:

    I would LOVE to get my hands on some of these F**kers .OMFG

    What has this world come to?

    ...Hate runs deep
     
  3. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Agree Tango -

    And again not to offend any catholics but I was raised catholic in my early years and seen some pretty hypocritical things - this doesn't really surprise me. Where I grew up we had known mafia members attending mass, tossing $100 bills in the coffers and then later that day could be seen driving around with their mistresses. Pretty sick.
     
  4. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Unfortunately, organized religions have a bad side along with a good side. I will not defend the Cathlolic Church about this, it is not my faith. But I will say that sometimes, decisions made by ANY religion or creed make no sense whatsoever. This is one that I will never understand.
     
  5. Heinz

    Heinz Active Member

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    Likewise my experiences via family have left me with NO time for the Catholic Church.
     
  6. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    No to offend anybody, but I'm not very religious. I do believe that there is a god, but I've been to church only three or four times in my life.
     
  7. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    sounds medieval and like a typical power hunger from one that was given high position in his area which should not have.

    ex-communication is no big deal, there are others- Christian church's that will accept her and her familie and love on her, as she needs it right now besides a truck load of counseling. and a person wonders why in the name of Christ so many are HATED and will never ever set foot in a place of worship ......
     
  8. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Well said Erich...
     
  9. Captain Dunsel

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    Hold it, folks. First off, I am Catholic. I am also not pro-abortion. However, what Tango35 said does not fit what I know of what the Church teaches. I'd like to see the news clippings to know exactly what was said.

    Letting the mother die to save the kids is not Catholic teaching. If the kids could be saved, they should be, but not at the cost of the mother's life. If the girl's life was in jeopardy, then it was sad, but necessary to terminate the pregnancies.

    Killing the innocent is against all moral teaching, not just religious ones. If that weren't so, we wouldn't have organizations like Atheists for Life.

    As to what the bishop said, if the abortion was necessary, then there was no violation of Canon law, and no one would be excommunicated, especially not the girl. Even then, the excommunication can be lifted if the person involved makes a full confession and honestly tries to clean up their act. I know, as my wife's parents forced her to have an abortion when she was a teenager, and she was able to return to the Church and is now active in our parish's Pro-Life ministry.


    CD
     
  10. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    If the kids lives could be saved, they should be? Sorry CD, but I have to disagree on this. The pregnant girl was only 9 years old. You honestly cannot ask a 9 year old to carry a pregnancy to full term and give birth at 10. That's just crazy.

    I am pretty much pro-life in belief, but also believe in choice. In this case, with rape resulting in pregnancy of a nine year old, termination seems the only choice here.
     
  11. freebird

    freebird Active Member

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  12. tango35

    tango35 Member

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    [Hold it, folks. First off, I am Catholic. I am also not pro-abortion. However, what Tango35 said does not fit what I know of what the Church teaches. I'd like to see the news clippings to know exactly what was said.

    Letting the mother die to save the kids is not Catholic teaching. If the kids could be saved, they should be, but not at the cost of the mother's life. If the girl's life was in jeopardy, then it was sad, but necessary to terminate the pregnancies.

    Killing the innocent is against all moral teaching, not just religious ones. If that weren't so, we wouldn't have organizations like Atheists for Life.

    As to what the bishop said, if the abortion was necessary, then there was no violation of Canon law, and no one would be excommunicated, especially not the girl. Even then, the excommunication can be lifted if the person involved makes a full confession and honestly tries to clean up their act. I know, as my wife's parents forced her to have an abortion when she was a teenager, and she was able to return to the Church and is now active in our parish's Pro-Life ministry.
    ]

    At first the mother and the doctors were excommunicated for allowing and doing the abortion ( my fault ),
    but this makes the whole not better. And the facts are the same.
    You said killing of the innocent is against all moral teaching, hmm, whats about rape, or child abuse done by catholic priest ?
    OK, so you think that a 9 year girl who is a child should - if she is physical able - to carry out the " fruit " of a criminal act. And for me its a plasphemy to say that rape is " sad ".
    And to say that a law has no value for a bishop, hmm, very interesting point of view, so he not better than a criminal who is neglecting the judicial system of a state.
    For me these announcements of the catholic church are second rape of this poor girl and not to forget the stepfather raped her 14 year old disabled sister, too.
    And did the bishop talked with a raped woman; i dont think so , otherwise he wouldnt say such bulls... . A femal person of any age feels after a rape helpless, dirty and in 99/100 she thinks that she is guilty for what has done with her. A rape - especially when she become pregnant - isnt a gods gift.
    And so its her decision - no other persons decision.


    And here for you and all the other news clippings to this theme :

    greets

    Thomas
     

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  13. Captain Dunsel

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    I did not say that rape is sad. I said that the necessity to kill the children to save her life was sad. The idea that the Church demands the mother be sacrified for the sake of the kids is not true. And, as someone who was raped (statuatory and incestuously, but still raped), I cannot approve of it nor any sexual abuse in any form. Still, even though I still bear the emotional scars from my experiences, I cannot put it at the same level as killing someone. The man still needs to be punished, but for a different crime.

    After you gave me the articles, I Googled more on the subject. Yes, my wife and I both agree that Bishop Sobrinho over-reached himself, as did Bishop Re. Do remember that one big difference between civil law and Canon law is that the Church has no jails, plus it's a lot easier to come back after confession than it is to be paroled from a penitentiary. Christ tasked us to forgive.

    First, it isn't just females who feel that way. I know, all too well. Fortunately, I couldn't become pregnant, but I have wondered what my abuser would have done if I had made HER pregnant, as we never used any protection. Second, the little girl in question is innocent. She is unable to make any such decision; she's just too young.

    By the way, you do know that "excommunication" simply means that the offenders can't receive communion until they confess, right? They are not cast out of the Church, nor are they not allowed to attend Mass. Whilst not being allowed receive the Host is a significant punishment for Catholics, it does not mean they are no longer welcome in the Church.

    CD
     
  14. freebird

    freebird Active Member

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    And yet they were excommunicated for performing an abortion after deciding that a 9 year old girl would likely not survive the attempt to deliver twins

    Seems to me like a bad case to decide to pick a fight.


    Which means that it is permanent, as the doctor cannot "confess" if he thinks he is doing the right thing. A 9 year old girl who might weigh 50 or 60 pounds is very likely incapable of successful delivery.

    Unless the Pope overturns the edict


    BTW, Did the Church have any comment about the unemployed single woman having octuplets?
     
  15. Crunch

    Crunch Member

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    I'm not going to get into the debate that's unfolding, but I do agree with this.

    Full of hypocritical, corrupt wankers. If it was a smaller emerging religion, it'd be deemed a cult.
     
  16. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    Are you a fan of The Chaser" Crunch?

    The Chaser - Memoirs of a reject sperm donor

    Cardinal George Pell
    C/o Tony Abbott MP
    House of Representatives
    Parliament House, Canberra ACT 2600

    Dear Cardinal Pell,

    The Salvos have cornered getting people jobs, Hillsong have cut a swathe through the music industry and the Masons control the world. It's time for the Catholic church to strike back! Especially after Dan Brown's disgraceful novel accusing you of writing Jesus' squeeze out of the bible.

    You need to get into the sperm and egg donation business! Think about it, you love people having babies and you hate abortion. But there is a drastic shortage of sperm and egg donors. It's practically a sin not to get involved!

    I am happy to act as a consultant to this project. My first thought is a pilot scheme using the ten minutes of your male parishioners' 'dead time' at weekly confessional. A few provocative pictures of a nun or two and a little stack of sterile containers, and off we go.

    And indeed I'm personally happy to ‘bash the bishop' as much as it takes to get some good initial stocks. I look forward to your reply.
    Yours sincerely,

    Tim Brunero
     
  17. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    This is a prime example of why I no longer support the church. My mother is Catholic and I do believe in god, but I will never support the church as a whole. I believe that God knows if you are a believer or not and you don't have to pray within walls.

    God is in you and all around you,
    and not within the walls you worship.


    Fact is fact, the Church was wrong in this case! If the Vatican supports this, it only confirms to me that it is a corrupt state.

    That is not the point. The church has no right to interfere in such matters. She was a 9 year old rape victim for crying out loud, and her life was in jeopardy.

    She did nothing wrong, what does she need to confess for????
     
  18. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    First off, let me just say that I have very little time for any organised religion. But the Catholic Church really is regressing back to the Stone Age of late.

    This episode is merely the most tragic of a number which have occurred in recent years showing the increasing tendency of Catholic bishops and the Vatican to cleave to a fudamentalist and literalist interpretation of the Bible and of canon law, as well as an ultra-conservative world-view. Just a few months ago, a British bishop well known for Holocaust denial, as well his opinions that women should not be permitted to enter higher education (or wear trousers), was re-admitted to the church after years of excommunication. And still, despite the HIV epidemics ravaging Africa, the church refuses to condone the use of condoms - better, it seems, that thousands die than an ancient teaching be modified.

    This episode further demonstrates the Catholic clergy's negative view of females, (the life of the 9 year-old rape victim being considered expendable in this case), and their preoccupation with sticking to a literal interpretation of the faith rather showing the compassion and love that Christianity is supposedly about. I was baptised an Anglican, but I cannot remember the last time I set foot in a church. I was educated about Christianity and a number of other religions in school, and what I see of Christianity in the public sphere sounds nothing like the religion I learned about :rolleyes: It is precisely this kind of thing that has made me extremely dubious of any organised religion, as all of them seem more bothered with internal and international politics than caring for their followers.
     
  19. Captain Dunsel

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    Interesting. No matter how many times I keep pointing out that the Church did not say anthing about the girl being guilty of anything, you folks keep insisting that it and I say she is! Can any of you get past your anti-Catholic prejudices and READ, then THINK????

    CD
     
  20. BombTaxi

    BombTaxi Active Member

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    I, for one, am not saying the church found her guilty of anything, merely that they find her life less worthwhile than that of her unborn children. You surely cannot argue against that interpretation, as the Church would rather have had her continue to full term (thus placing her life in grave danger), than have a termination.
     
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