How safe is your city?

[ndicki]

I wish I was - no, wait a bit - WERE as well educated!

BTW, as I haven't read the entire thread, this may have been touched upon above - is there any truth in the stats I've seen which say that while gun ownership in Canada is in fact higher than in the US, the gun-crime rate is significantly lower. True? Or not?

If it is, it'd be interesting to speculate about the reasons...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Even per capita, US gun ownership is probably ten fold when compared with Canada. In recent years many people have purchased guns here in the US not only for home protection but as a quasi-protest against the anti-gun lobby.

 

[Hunter368]

I wish I was - no, wait a bit - WERE as well educated!

BTW, as I haven't read the entire thread, this may have been touched upon above - is there any truth in the stats I've seen which say that while gun ownership in Canada is in fact higher than in the US, the gun-crime rate is significantly lower. True? Or not?

If it is, it'd be interesting to speculate about the reasons...

Mmmmm not sure to tell you the truth. Maybe NS (Wayne) might know.

 

[Matt308]

I'd have to wholeheartedly agree with FBJ on Canadian gun ownership.

From NRA website:

"Violent crime hit an all-time high in 1991. Since then, "gun control" laws have been rolled back, the number of privately-owned guns has risen to an all-time high, and violent crime has dropped to a 30-year low.

More Guns. The number of privately-owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) estimates there were about 215 million guns in 19991; the National Academy of Sciences puts the 1999 figure at 258 million2. The number of new guns each year averages about 4.5 million (about 2%).3 According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there were 60.4 million approved (new and used) NICS firearm transactions from 1994-2004.4 The FBI reports that there were 61.6 million approved NICS transactions from Nov. 30, 1998 through the end of 2005, and that the annual number of transactions increased 2.4% between 2003-2004 and 3.1% between 2004-2005."

...and:

"Gun Laws, Culture, Justice Crime In Foreign Countries

Do other countries all have more restrictive gun laws and lower violent crime rates than the U.S.? How do U.S. and other countries` crime trends compare? What societal factors affect crime rates?

A recent report for Congress notes, "All countries have some form of firearms regulation, ranging from the very strictly regulated countries like Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore and Sweden to the less stringently controlled uses in the jurisdictions of Mexico and Switzerland, where the right to bear arms continues as a part of the national heritage up to the present time." However, "From available statistics, among (the 27) countries surveyed, it is difficult to find a correlation between the existence of strict firearms regulations and a lower incidence of gun-related crimes. . . . (I)n Canada a dramatic increase in the percentage of handguns used in all homicides was reported during a period in which handguns were most strictly regulated. And in strictly regulated Germany, gun-related crime is much higher than in countries such as Switzerland and Israel, that have simpler and/or less restrictive legislation." (Library of Congress, "Firearms Regulations in Various Foreign Countries, May 1998.")

Many foreign countries have less restrictive firearms laws, and lower crime rates, than parts of the U.S. that have more restrictions. And many have low crime rates, despite having very different firearms laws. Switzerland and Japan "stand out as intriguing models. . . . (T)hey have crime rates that are among the lowest in the industrialized world, and yet they have diametrically opposite gun policies." (Nicholas D. Kristof, "One Nation Bars, The Other Requires," New York Times, 3/10/96.) Swiss citizens are issued fully-automatic rifles to keep at home for national defense purposes, yet "abuse of military weapons is rare." The Swiss own two million firearms, including handguns and semi-automatic rifles, they shoot about 60 million rounds of ammunition per year, and "the rate of violent gun abuse is low." (Stephen P. Halbrook, Target Switzerland; Library of Congress, pp. 183-184.) In Japan, rifles and handguns are prohibited; shotguns are very strictly regulated. Japan`s Olympic shooters have had to practice out of the country because of their country`s gun laws. Yet, crime has been rising for about the last 15 years and the number of shooting crimes more than doubled between 1997-1998. Organized crime is on the rise and 12 people were killed and 5,500 injured in a nerve gas attack in a Japanese subway system in 1995. (Kristof, "Family and Peer Pressure Help Keep Crime Levels down in Japan," New York Times, 5/14/95.) Mostly without firearms, Japan`s suicide rate is at a record high, about 90 per day. (Stephanie Strom, "In Japan, Mired in Recession, Suicides Soar," New York Times, p. 1, 7/15/99.)

U.S. crime trends have been better than those in countries with restrictive firearms laws. Since 1991, with what HCI calls "weak gun laws" (Sarah Brady, "Our Country`s Claim to Shame," 5/5/97), the number of privately owned firearms has risen by perhaps 50 million. Americans bought 37 million new firearms in the 1993-1999 time frame alone. (BATF, Crime Gun Trace Reports, 1999, National Report, 11/00.) Meanwhile, America`s violent crime rate has decreased every year and is now at a 23- year low (FBI). In addition to Japan, other restrictive countries have experienced increases in crime:
England -- Licenses have been required for rifles and handguns since 1920, and for shotguns since 1967. A decade ago semi-automatic and pump-action center-fire rifles, and all handguns except single- shot .22s, were prohibited. The .22s were banned in 1997. Shotguns must be registered and semi-automatic shotguns that can hold more than two shells must be licensed. Despite a near ban on private ownership of firearms, "English crime rates as measured in both victim surveys and police statistics have all risen since 1981. . . . In 1995 the English robbery rate was 1.4 times higher than America`s. . . . the English assault rate was more than double America`s." All told, "Whether measured by surveys of crime victims or by police statistics, serious crime rates are not generally higher in the United States than England." (Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and in Wales, 1981-1996," 10/98.) An English doctor is suspected of murdering more than 200 people, many times the number killed in the gun-related crimes used to justify the most recent restrictions.

"A June 2000 CBS News report proclaimed Great Britain `one of the most violent urban societies in the Western world.` Declared Dan Rather: `This summer, thousands of Americans will travel to Britain expecting a civilized island free from crime and ugliness. . . (But now) the U.K. has a crime problem . . . worse than ours.`" (David Kopel, Paul Gallant, and Joanne Eisen, "Britain: From Bad to Worse," America`s First Freedom, 3/01, p. 26.) Street crime increased 47% between 1999 and 2000 (John Steele, "Crime on streets of London doubles," London Daily Telegraph, Feb. 29, 2000.) See also www.2ndlawlib.org/journals/okslip.html, Guest Comment, and www.nraila.org/research/19990716-BillofRightsCivilRights-030.html.

"

 

[Matt308]

And to continue {Again from NRA website}

"Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent. Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998. (Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00) For more information on Australian crime trends, see www.nraila.org/research/20000329-BanningGuns-001.shtml.

Canada -- A 1934 law required registration of handguns. A 1977 law (Bill C-51) required a "Firearms Acquisition Certificate" for acquiring a firearm, eliminated protection of property as a reason for acquiring a handgun, and required registration of "restricted weapons," defined to include semi- automatic rifles legislatively attacked in this country under the slang and confusing misnomer, "assault weapon." The 1995 Canadian Firearms Act (C-68) prohibited compact handguns and all handguns in .32 or .25 caliber -- half of privately owned handguns. It required all gun owners to be licensed by Jan. 1, 2000, and to register all rifles and shotguns by Jan. 1, 2003. C-68 broadened the police powers of "search and seizure" and allowed the police to enter homes without search warrants, to "inspect" gun storage and look for unregistered guns. Canada has no American "Fifth Amendment;" C-68 requires suspected gun owners to testify against themselves. Because armed self-defense is considered inappropriate by the government, "Prohibited Weapons Orders" have prohibited private possession and use of Mace and similar, non-firearm means of protection. (For more information, see www.cfc- ccaf.gc.ca and www.nraila.org/research/20010215-InternationalGunControl-001.shtml.

From 1978 to 1988, Canada`s burglary rate increased 25%, surpassing the U.S. rate. Half of burglaries in Canada are of occupied homes, compared to only 10% in the U.S. From 1976 to 1980, ethnically and economically similar areas of the U.S. and Canada had virtually identical homicide rates, despite significantly different firearm laws. See also Dave Kopel on NRO

Germany -- Described in the Library of Congress report as "among the most stringent in Europe," Germany`s laws are almost as restrictive as those which HCI wants imposed in the U.S. Licenses are required to buy or own a firearm, and to get a license a German must prove his or her "need" and pass a government test. Different licenses are required for hunters, recreational shooters, and collectors. As is the case in Washington, D.C., it is illegal to have a gun ready for defensive use in your own home. Before being allowed to have a firearm for protection, a German must again prove "need." Yet the annual number of firearm-related murders in Germany rose 76% between 1992-1995. (Library of Congress, p. 69.) It should be noted, HCI goes further than the Germans, believing "there is no constitutional right to self-defense" (HCI Chair Sarah Brady, quoted in Tom Jackson, "Keeping the Battle Alive," Tampa Tribune, 10/21/93) and "the only reason for guns in civilian hands is sporting purposes" (HCI`s Center to Prevent Handgun Violence Director, Dennis Henigan, quoted in USA Today, 11/20/91).

Italy -- There are limits on the number of firearms and the quantity of ammunition a person may own. To be issued a permit to carry a firearm, a person must prove an established need, such as a dangerous occupation. Firearms which use the same ammunition as firearms used by the military -- which in America would include countless millions of rifles, shotguns, and handguns -- and ammunition for them are prohibited. Yet, "Italy`s gun law, `the most restrictive in Europe,` had left her southern provinces alone with a thousand firearm murders a year, thirty times Switzerland`s total." (Richard A. I. Munday, Most Armed Most Free?, Brightlingsea, Essex: Piedmont Publishing, 1996.)"

And what I like is the citings the NRA uses. You can bust them for their position, but they argue on solid ground.

 

[Hunter368]

Good posts.


We do have home invasions. I tell my wife all the time to lock the doors when I am not home. It drives me crazy I come home (dark out) and she has the wood/steel door open and just the screen door locked. Damn screen door I can rip open with one hand in about 2 seconds. Drives me crazy how she does not take it serouis.

Home invasions is one of the reasons (small one) that I train in MA for the last 6 years. I have said this before, I don't give a crap about what the law says when it comes to MA or exsessive use of force. Any ****ing ******* comes into my home I will kill them or beat them until they are within a inch of their lives. That is where my Wife is, my Daughter is and it is our home. I will protect my home with my life. They can break into my car or my garage and I don't care too much. But if they come into my house then it is life and death for me. Anyone that threatens my Daughter and Wife are going to be in for one hell of a fight.

In our city there is a house invasion in the news alot. Very scary.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Interesting...

I spent a lot of time in Winnipeg in the 80s, don't remember it having hardly any crime...

I do remember a shady part of town where there were a few hookers and drunk Indians....

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Great posts Matt....

 

[k9kiwi]

Excellent posts Matt.

One question.

How did you ever dig up the facts without an edumacashun???

 

[Matt308]

I learnt my self real good.

 

[Hunter368]

Interesting...

I spent a lot of time in Winnipeg in the 80s, don't remember it having hardly any crime...

I do remember a shady part of town where there were a few hookers and drunk Indians....

Winnipeg was until the last couple years been the murder capital per capital in Canada. I think Edmonton is now the leader per capital, not 100%.

That shady part of town is downtown and North end. Yes the natives here can be a problem at times. I work in the North end and drive through downtown when I go to my MA club. North end is very poor area of the city and downtown is where alot of those "drunk natives" hang out and beg.

Winnipeg is doing a fairly good job revitalizing our downtown. The city is encouraging businesses to move and build downtown etc etc. They have built new huge builds for offices etc to help the downtown area. We now have one of the best / modern arena in North America.

But it is a work in process.

 

[Hunter368]

Excellent posts Matt.

One question.

How did you ever dig up the facts without an edumacashun???

You funny bastards.

 

[Hunter368]

I learnt my self real good.

I love it!!! Very good one.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Winnipeg was until the last couple years been the murder capital per capital in Canada. I think Edmonton is now the leader per capital, not 100%.

That shady part of town is downtown and North end. Yes the natives here can be a problem at times. I work in the North end and drive through downtown when I go to my MA club. North end is very poor area of the city and downtown is where alot of those "drunk natives" hang out and beg.

Winnipeg is doing a fairly good job revitalizing our downtown. The city is encouraging businesses to move and build downtown etc etc. They have built new huge builds for offices etc to help the downtown area. We now have one of the best / modern arena in North America.

But it is a work in process.

I remember a big mall downtown that had an enclosed crosswalk over one of the main streets - is it still there?

You guys need an NHL team back - I've seen the Jets a few times while there.

 

[Hunter368]

Yes that is Portage Place you are talking about and it is still there. It struggles at times drawing in customers, at times it looks like the land of the walking dead. Just old, poor and natives walking in the mall. They try hard to bring in the young, rich and middle class but does not work very well.

We have one of the biggest shopping centers in Canada still, Polo Park. That place is always busy and very nice. If you seen the Jets play in Wpg then you would know Polo Park. Polo Park and the arena sat side by side in the 80's. Now that arena where the Jets played is gone, they knocked it down this past summer.

Now we have the Winnpieg Moose Hockey team (Official website of the Manitoba Moose (AHL)) . Mmmm not really NHL quality and it is hard for me to watch. I grew up watching NHL quality hockey and AHL is not NHL hockey. But they do have a decent fan base here so good for them.

I would love to get a NHL team but I am not so sure we could afford it even in todays game. Not enough Winnipegers are willing to dish out $60 - $90 per game to watch hockey. Hell we drive across the city when we hear that a gas station on the other side of town is selling gas for $0.02 cheaper per litre. We are cheap.


What were you doing here in the 80's? Did you live here? work? or just passing through?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

What were you doing here in the 80's? Did you live here? work? or just passing through?

Portage Place! That's it! Too bad what it turned into...

I used to go into Bristol Aerospace - they were a major subcontractor on the P-3 / CP-140 program. I was a field QA rep for Lockheed at the time.

 

[Hunter368]

Portage Place! That's it! Too bad what it turned into...

I used to go into Bristol Aerospace - they were a major subcontractor on the P-3 / CP-140 program. I was a field QA rep for Lockheed at the time.

Very sweet. I live about 4 mins away from Bristol. I walk my dog by there at times. There is also Air Canada plant there just down the road and around the corner, 2 mins from Bristol.

Do you know where Assiniboia Downs race track (horse racing) is in west end of city? I live maybe 2 mins from there.

Did you ever see the 17th Wing AF base on Ness Ave close to Polo Park and Jets old arena? I take my daughter there to watch jets and planes take off / land. Also the 17th wing has about 8 planes on display there as you drive into the base.

I have been to couple parties on the base over the years. Also there is a 17th Wing base on Route 90 and Grant. I belonged to a MA club for years there on the base itself. The instructor was in the Military.

I have lived in West end, aka St.James / Cresview for 21 years now. I love the area, very homey.

If you ever find your way back to Winnipeg make sure you tell me before hand and I will take you out for a few beers.

 

[ndicki]

Must admit...

And the arguments are compelling; although here in France, with suburban* youth unrest reaching record highs (again), I don't like the idea of guns being available to anybody but the good guys, And seeing as the French police have a solid reputation for abusing their powers, that leaves a few Gendarmes and me. And they won't let me have one.

*For the benefit: in France, the poorer people ( = ghettoes) live in the inner suburbs, and the richer people in the city centre. Then outside the ring of poor people, you get to the rich people who don't want to live in the city-centre.

 

[k9kiwi]

You funny bastards.

I ain't a *******, an I cun prove it.

I wuz there when Ma an Pa gots married.

 

[Matt308]