Join the Army or go to jail....

Wildcat said:

The day all these terrorists, insurgents, extremists and whatever grow some balls and don a uniform and fight it out against us on an open battlefield, is the day that I'll care about their treatment as POW's. Until then I, and I suspect many here, don't give a rats arse with what happens to them. And remember, it was their cowardly acts of murder that brought all this sh*t on themselves - NOT the US Army.

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I agree Wildcat. I don't care for what happens to them if they are caught. They are not in uniform and therefore have no rights. As for T4 trying to say the US Army is committing war crimes, how can they when what they are doing isn't against any conventions on war - combatants not in uniform can be shot out of hand - which they aren't doing.

T4.H said:

This is not my job. I know these cases, I just read about (the few one). And what do you think, how many crimes are not known? How many stayed without prosecution and punishment?

I will sleep now.
I have to work tomorrow, to earn my money to survive.

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I think you should stick to things you know about....

This is certainly not one of them.

evangilder said:

T4H, you are down to about 4 hours to provide your proof of US soldiers "lack of education and motivation" or apologize.

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I am waiting for that as well...

I am amazed at the garbage that is spread by the internet and certain news organizations and more amazed by how many bite into it.

Anyway, back to the orginal subject. I want the best and highest motivated military I can afford. As such, I do not want a draft and I do not support criminals in the military. By the way, and I don't think I am being overly pro-American, I think the U.S. military is the most educated, best trained, highly motivated (Israel military is probably more motivated, by necessity), and best equipped military in the world. I also think that morale high and discipline is excellent for a wartime.

Well said Dave.

No one is denying what was done by a few "bad" soldiers but they are in no way representative of the quality of soldier seen in the US Army. I think placed in the right situation any soldier would commit "war crimes" especially if their survival may depend on it.

T4H - flat out, you're an idiot - your statements would be like me saying all Germans are idiots!" Being a former member of the US Armed Forces, not only do you owe me an apology, but every member on this board who served in the US Armed Forces ESPECIALLY Chris (DerAdlerIstGelandet) who not only served in the US Army but who also happens to be German!!!!!


Idiot.............

evangilder said:

Yeah, I think having felons serve is an invitation to trouble. I seem to remember that being asked when I went to the MEPS station; "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?".

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Evan, I think I remember reading that the army gives recruits a psycological evaluation before they allow them to serve?

T4.H said:

It is dangerous even to think about something like this...espacially in a time when you are in war!

Dangerous to send felons to seve? Agreed

In my opinion, the justice system of the USA is not fair. It is a big difference, if you are rich or poor.

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Justice system in the US is about as good or better than most other "Western nations" Unfortunatley I suspect that people in other countries base 99% of their opinion of the US justice system on the "O.J. Simpson" or "Paris Hilton" cases

I've spent about half of this decade in the US so I have a good idea what goes on. Most US police officers I've dealt with were very professional courteous. (No I wasn't busted! ! 2 accidents 1 drunken bozo busting my window) When my vehicle was broken into in Canada the cops couldn't even be bothered to send an investigator - ("Just give the report on the phone sir") I've been a plaintiff in small claims in the US Canada, it was about 5 times more hassle in Canada. We have a big problem here in Canada with judges giving a slap on the wrist to repeat offenders (shoplifting, car theft, break enter etc) and probation, on the 2nd, 3rd 10th 20th offence. I like the US idea that the punlic can vote out bleeding heart judges.

T4.H said:

The US-Army lacks of educated and also motivated soldiers...

Ok now this statement in not only extremely insulting, but dead wrong. The US soldiers are highly motivated and are better educated than the general population.
And around the world, the US Army is nowadays famous for there war-crimes especially in Irak...
Do you want to go next to someone into a battle who is only in your unit, because if not, he would end in jail?

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DerAdler said:

Have you been watching ZDF again? Everytime I see this very political and anti American TV Channel I laugh because it is wrong in 90 percent of what it broadcasts.
And in that case they are wrong. War-Crimes has been very minimal in Iraq. In fact there have not been any war crimes. There have been things done that probably should not have been done but there were no war crimes.
The US Army does not have a policy of torture or a policy of killing innocent civilians. As a veteran of Iraq I am disgusted.

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Thats correct Adler.

I think T4.H is wrong about "War crimes" which are ordered or promoted by the government. There have been crimes committed "in a war" which are common crimes. (I assume that he's referring to Abu Graib etc) It's unfortunate but most media will ignore 1,000s of good deeds done by US soldiers, and concentrate on the .01% or less that commit crimes - COMMON CRIMES - not war crimes - and they are punished.

Gnomey said:

I agree Wildcat. I don't care for what happens to them if they are caught. They are not in uniform and therefore have no rights. As for T4 trying to say the US Army is committing war crimes, how can they when what they are doing isn't against any conventions on war - combatants not in uniform can be shot out of hand - which they aren't doing.

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Gnomey I think he said "famous for" committing, not "did commit". If by "famous for" he means "accused of" in the cr@p media, unfortunately he's not wrong on this, I've heard too many ignorant comments from people the media in Europe, Australia, Canada etc. (and from the far-left anti war types in the US too) about Bush is a war criminal, US soldiers are baby killers and other SH*T like that!

I disagree with you though about detainee's rights Gnomey, I think Sen. McCain is right about this. Whether they are unlawful combatants or not we need to treat them as if they were covered by the Geneva convention. otherwise it could 1.) Result in more mis-treatment of US soldiers if captured, and
2.) give an excuse for all the dictatorships or oppresive regimes (China, Russia, Burma, Iran, Zimbabwe, Sudan) to abuse detainees by claiming they are "unlawful combatants" etc.

In the justice system we must give the accused all of their rights even if we know that they are as guilty as f**k. (like O.J. Simpson?)

FLYBOYJ said:

T4H - flat out, you're an idiot - your statements would be like me saying all Germans are idiots!" Being a former member of the US Armed Forces, not only do you owe me an apology, but every member on this board who served in the US Armed Forces ESPECIALLY Chris (DerAdlerIstGelandet) who not only served in the US Army but who also happens to be German!!!!!


Idiot.............

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Actually I am a US Citizen....

I like to say I am a German who has blood that flows Red White and Blue....8)

Must be weird if you donate blood Adler.....

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

I like to say I am a German who has blood that flows Red White and Blue....8)

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8)

I wonder if our esteemed banned member has ever been in the fighting overseas for his first hand knowledge to come so freely upon us ?

wingnut just go away

What a meatball....

As far as the topic goes, well.....

I'm no angel, never claimed to be one, never tried to emulate one either.... Who here hasnt done something illegal in their past, prior to joining the service??? Anyone ever boost a car with ur 15 yr old friends??? Ever do any graffiti or vandalism??? Steal a bicycle or mini-bike?? Bust up some cabbages in the local farmers field?? Trespass on a job site to steal some extra wood to build a fort in the woods???

Does anyone remember some of the sea stories or round-the-fire chats with some of ur brothers in arms??? I remember this one Marine sniper in Somolia, who told us about his excursion with a sheep...

Thats a Class A Felony in all 50 US States...

I would have trusted my life in that Snipers hands....

lesofprimus said:

I remember this one Marine sniper in Somolia, who told us about his excursion with a sheep...
Thats a Class A Felony in all 50 US States..I would have trusted my life in that Snipers hands....

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Me too, but not my pet sheep!

Wow - I take a little hiatus to come back to this crap from T4. Just about every single post from this clown has been anti-American diarrhea.

mkloby said:

Wow - I take a little hiatus to come back to this crap from T4. Just about every single post from this clown has been anti-American diarrhea.

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Welcome back bud - get those gold wings yet?

Welcome back, Matt..... you've been missed... oh yea... I started
this brew-ha-ha.....

Charles

No worries Charles, I ended it . Welcome back, Matt.

Thanks guys - yup I got winged several weeks ago and then moved to NC. We got in the new house and were stuck on dial-up for a while, which was the main reason I wasn't around.

You can't believe how frustrating dial-up is when you're used you're used to the instant gratification of cable and such.

Congratulations, Matt... good to see you back.

Good to have you back Matt

TO

Congrats on getting your wings, Matt. So now, you're officially a flying leatherneck?